Natural birth

[Weirdbigtoe]

What is classed as a natural birth-is it vaginal birth with no pain relief at all?
I had a vaginal birth, but requested epidural. My mum to this day still asks why, I can’t remember being massively informed at the time, but just basically not wanting any pain, is this weird? It seems incredulous to my mum. It wouldn’t have affected my Dd would it?
Where I am they don’t have gas & air, the only option was epidural or not, hence why I went for it, if they had gas and air I would have had that

The key here is “cannot be explained by other factors”
I stated this at the outset that the causes of C-sections are many and you cannot just compare statistics between your favourite two countries and conclude what you have concluded.

I have provided peer reviewed scientific studies showing that the results are mixed, you on the other hand have provided zero credible data to back up your certitude.

The point I am making is that if you don't have any credible data PROVING that there are risks, you don't go round telling women to labour without pain relief.

You keep forgetting that not everybody needs or wants that pain relief. You never answered the question about whether you’d actually been through it. You seem very biased.

I responded directly to your question confirming that yes, I have given birth twice. You must have missed it.

If you genuinely don't want pain relief , e.g. because you want a home birth and think the benefits of giving birth in your own home outweigh the benefits of pain relief, fine.

What I am objecting to is women refusing or being denied pain relief, not because they are having a home birth, not because they enjoy pain and think that no labour experience is complete without wanting to die at some point, but because of the absolute bullshit women are being fed about the risks of epidurals.

Give women accurate information. Then we'll see how many of them still want to give birth without pain relief.

I suspect the reality is that if 80% of labouring women asked for an epidural the NHS simply wouldn't be able to accommodate it, so it suits them for women to believe this stuff.

@MargotBamborough "What I am objecting to is women refusing or being denied pain relief, not because they are having a home birth, not because they enjoy pain and think that no labour experience is complete without wanting to die at some point"

Jesus Christ. So now it's martyrdom, competitiveness, masochism or home birth.
I HATE this. How dare you be so judgemental of a perfectly legitimate choice. How dare you.

You are determined to be offended, aren't you?

If you want to labour without pain relief, fine. Knock yourself out.

I. DON'T. CARE.

What I do care about is OTHER women who are suffering terrible pain during labour because they have been fed a crock of shit about the supposed risks of epidurals which isn't actually backed up by any kind of reliable evidence. That fills me with rage.

If most women wanted to labour without pain relief it wouldn't be necessary to feed them so many lies about the risks of pain relief, would it? Everyone could just make a free, INFORMED choice.

It's incredibly odd for pp to imply that just because you disagree with them, you can't have given birth.

A natural birth is vaginally without any intervention or pain medication.

BUT

People seem to take offence to the word "natural", to me this does not mean im better than a woman that had an epidural, or a woman that had a C section.
I managed to have 3 natural births, im sure part of it was being informed, luck, and genetics.

Especially when you've spent much of the thread talking about your own experience of giving birth and have already answered the question directly the last time they asked it.

@MargotBamborough I'm not offended. I'm angry. You are completely dismissing a whole group of women who want an intervention free birth. You are saying that there is misinformation about pain relief. I agree, there is. But then you are telling women that don't want pain relief that they are-well I won't list your appalling characterisations again. You would rightly be outraged if I used words like lazy or cowardly or the particularly shitty "too posh to push" about women who want medicalised births. But you are happy to use even worse words about those of us that don't.

The "list of appalling characteristics" is in your head though.

If you try to quote where I actually used those words, you won't be able to.

Exactly. It's bonkers.

Then there's also claiming you've said things that you've never said. Again, bonkers. It's there for people to actually see that it was never said.

Yes and you’ve said that, but you’ve also said women only cope without epidurals (if they do indeed cope) because they are so relieved from the pain. Basically you won’t accept that some people don’t need or want those extra drugs and assume they is some kind of madness there.

I was induced and had gas and air. Was never offered an epidural. Was horrendous, I'd have taken the epidural. Still natural. Your mum is being silly.

That's not what I'm saying at all and I'm getting quite sick of repeating myself now.

If you don't want pain relief because you don't want pain relief, great.

If you are effectively being coerced into not having pain relief because of non-existent risks which ideological midwives, natural birth influencers and ill-informed posters on parenting sites have told you you need to worry about, that's not so great.

Yes that’s fine, I agree about women having choice and the correct information.

You keep repeating yourself because you have made quite a few points where women are ‘martyrs’ or ‘want to feel like death’. That’s not how it is for all of us actually.

And yes it’s only for women who choose delivery suites, where the environment is more likely to make you ‘need’ an epidural in the first place.

Oh really, please quote the post where I used the word "martyr" then.

There’s no such thing as a “natural” birth - nothing natural at all about a human coming out of you! Men have clearly made up that saying!

Giving birth is literally the most natural thing that there is. Where do you think new people are supposed to come from?