To leave my job/grievance with HR

[StrongTea22]

For context, pre kids I had a similar situation with a manager within the same wider organisation.

I’ve triggered an absence trigger at work (4 times in 1 year) half of it unfortunately Covid. Front facing public role, career grade and professional standards in place.

my manager is a bully. I’ve managed to manage becoming a target but I think it’s taken me this long to develop some assertiveness skills which she hasn’t taken to well.

basically she has been negligent in some of the processes and logging of Absence and policy which I have objected to and we had a meeting with HR a few weeks ago.

The meeting was hard and they began by asking about my well being. I said I was well but wanted advice on mitigating covid within the organisation and what steps were in place to support staff with the public.

this was discussed and then I got to ask about some of the areas I objected to and received two apologies. I had to be massively assertive which I don’t find easy.

THe HR rep was very combatant and when id received my second apology and was wiped out being assertive I was asked again about my well being.

my response was …are we goi g to talk about that now? I thought we’d talked about that?

They both got very insistent saying that was the purpose of the meeting but I felt I’d already been asked and answered appropriately.

I wasn’t refusing to answer, I wasn’t rude, insulting, defiant and I did not break any code of conduct or professional standards only for the HR woman to basically say something like ‘you’re talking to your manager and I suggest you watch your tone’

Now this completely knocked the wind out of my sails for a second as that is not how I was acting (and I checked with a colleague in attendance who would have told me).

I think my manager struggles being challenged and this meeting was very much ‘get back in your box’ and that the HR lady had been waiting for an opportunity to give me this sort of warning at my managers behest.

AIBU to be outraged about the HR person? Tone policed for…I aren’t sure what, reflecting out loud?

we had a break afterwards and I am at the stage now where I don't think it will be good for me to continue working there.

How do I manage this going forward? I can ask to reduce my hours but it’s unlikely to be agreed as they can’t recruit.

Any insight to role of HR welcomed.

one thing I have learned about HR is in most instances they are there to protect the company and not the employees.

All a grievance wver does, in 95% of cases, is to destroy already fractured relationships. The outcome will likely be mediation. Therefore in your shoes I'd suggest mediation now.

Is this about your anxiety in light of covid rather than your absences? Covid is here to stay op. There are few statutory interventions left. The screens are down, the masks have gone, life is back to normal and the wheels are turning. We all need to manage it together and kicking up a fuss at work isn't going to change it.

There's as much chance of catching covid through a chance encounter as at work. On the bus man taking your money at the petrol station, in the supermarket, bumping into a friend at the library, etc.

I hope you've had a flu jab.

Having said that I think it's a shame this year's boosters are only available for the over 65s. DH and I are lucky because our mother's are very elderly and we fall under the carer category.

forum regret syndrome (FRS)😂😂

I proper hate when people say HR protect the company not the staff... to protect the company they have to protect the staff. Ensuring policies are followed fairly or they end up in a tribunal...

Also I feel I should be on commission for a union... your rep technically can push for you to be moved area under certain circumstances. But working one long shift a week would probably make this really hard.

I dont envy you OP, cause it sounds like you have a crap union rep, a nasty manager and at best an on the fence HR.. this may sound ridiculous... could you go off long term sick while you look for a new job? Long term tends to be looked on with less hassle than lots of short time off.

Not if HR is being done well.

Well you've learned wrong...

HR are there to protect the organisation. They do that by protecting the rights of the employee.

IWe work with vulnerable people who aren’t always very self aware about hygiene which gives me the extra ick.

I got it from a family member going abroad.

From a work POV, I need to feel empowered as to what the party line is for Covid and they haven’t really said and I know it’s because we are all living with it now.

I’m not kicking up a fuss about Covid. It My union rep had it as a focus and it just wasn’t needed for the meeting really.

I just mentioned it as I wanted some guidance and understandably feel twitchy about being ill again as this has been very stressful as I’ve never been subject to formal sanctions EVER so then for it to be mismanaged, it’s been hard going for me.

I just want managerial support if I object to service users attending who are very clearly unwell and being able to turf them gently out without fear of repercussions or attendance being an issue from management 🙂

You are right about a grievance and the outcomes from that and I know there is no good to come from that. I could go down the mediation route but feel it’s too late for this now and hence why I am considering leaving.

I need to ask about the jab!

I'm a Unite the Union Workplace Rep in the NHS.
No way would I have let the HR person get away with talking to my member like that. I would have pulled it up as inappropriate immediately.
I'm currently in a situation where I'm tackling my own bullying manager, behaviour she has got away with for a very long time until I went to that workplace. She shuts down any dialogue, has favourites and picks on those that don't suck up to her.
Now she does feel very threatened having a Rep watching her and is trying to get me out.
Long story but I have raised a formal grievance as she lied in front of HR about my situation and I now have proof, plus I have raised a claim for an ET.
However, it's much more stressful than representing one of my members.
I would raise a formal grievance about the behaviours in the previous meeting and request that the determining manager is from another area and not a member of HR, as they will stick together.
Also the advice about calling ACAS is good advice in any employment situation, they are very knowledgeable.
Keep standing up for yourself. My guide on this is that if it's factual, not personal or insulting and it's said in a calm manner, it's ok. The problem is some people prefer yes men/women and I'm not one of them and I don't think you are either.
You know you're right, they're wrong, stick to your guns.
Oh and I do find the offering staff support thing is often used to try to make staff feel inferior in my experience nowadays, we all know where to find staff support services if we need it. I once raised something a few years ago and the reply from the director looking into it was that they were worried about me. That just made me rather cross as they were deflecting from the issue. It's all tactical from these people.
I just want to say, well done though, I know it takes its toll and is hard to do and don't let them get to you.

We should start a thread.

I regret each and every one within minutes 😂

Thanks for this @budlea64

Well done for walking the walk. It is a really hard, especially when you are made to think ‘is it me?’

It has taken its toll and unfortunately I have to decide what I want my work life to look like and it’s not this.

If you are front line health or social care you are entitled to a covid jab. DD teaches SEN, she gets one.

If you are saying that you work one long shift per week on one day, then 4 single days of absence has the same impact as someone else who works five days a week taking 20 days. In effect you probably work 52 days (less a/l and bank holidays so about 42 days) and you have been absent for about 10% of your scheduled time. That's equivalent to someone who works the usual 260 days (less a/l and bh's so 232) taking 23 odd days of sickness. In that context op it is simply not acceptable.

Your job involves the vulnerable. Get jabbed, buy a mask, wash your hands a lot, take plenty of vitamins and get on with it. If you get covid again, then offer to fill in on another day or do some admin from home. Be helpful.

Term time only post. 39 weeks a year.

I’m not questioning the context or amount of leave or even asking if my being absent is acceptable? It’s not ideal is it being ill and triggering an absence policy, I’d have rather avoided it.

I have said I understand the absence management and it is absolutely right that there is a policy in place.

What I object to is my manager fluffing the process of formal disciplinary in terms of clarity from that point forward.

I’ve spent the last year covering for colleagues bereavement leave and extended long term sick leave within my team and helped out in other areas when I have been able to.

Kicking myself as could have moved a month internally or so since and didn’t and really should have.

It’s hard to explain without it being outing but probably best for me to leave in the first instance or at least keep applying and going for interviews.

I had an inkling how the meeting would go with my rep and I’ve learnt a lot! Mostly that maybe I should be a rep maybe 🤭

Not if you struggle with assertiveness, but you do need a new rep.

Maybe or a new job.

Hard isn’t it.

Can I ask then how binding are policies for Employers?

If a policy says.. you should discuss and agree something

Does it matter if you don’t advise them of that and you hold them to it regardless?

Im being subjected to a review that I should have had discussed with me at point X.

my manager bypassed this COMPLETELY and I am still subject to it…because they can.

I don’t necessarily want a grievance but I want to stand my ground.

I’ve received an outcome letter and it does not address this at all.

A fundamental part of policy, transparency with staff, disregarded.

Essentially, because it is in the policy, she tried to say I should have been aware of it as an outcome which is of course outrageous.

Do I have a legal leg to stand on?

Can I object to being put through a review process as an outcome to a meeting that she did not discuss with me as an actual outcome? Just confirmed in writing as if it were almost discussed, or that I would know to expect that.

A friend has said to respond stating you have not referenced xx and copy in her manager. Not to ask for a response but so there is a record that has been seen by other eyes.

I think what your friend suggested is a good idea. It's essentially an addendum to the record of that meeting, highlighting that these other matters were discussed and should be on the record.

Yes at first I wasn’t keen on the idea BUT it adds to it.

I understand why she may not want them on the record…but from my point of view why shouldn’t they be.

Im experiencing formal proceedings that should be done with transparency and she can’t even follow policy correctly. Madness the inequality I have right now.

So looking at it from my POV currently.

They are protecting my manager who has messed up…possibly a grievance and a tribunal if it has legs and if I’m angry enough (I’m not) so how am I been protected from negligence here?

My manager is literally interpreting the policy and doing what she wants and I have zero recourse even though I am objecting.

An update to the thread.

I have challenged the content of the letter for not including my objections and that we discussed her negligence to follow policy in informing me of outcomes.

How would they even justify that at a tribunal? I was upset...now i'm angry.

Sounds like you are being poorly represented and have encountered a crap HR manager.

I understand taking a grievance/Dignity at Work complaint is stressful and you would always be wary that you wouldn't get a fair outcome anyway.

It's really hard to advise without knowing the details, but if you were decide to challenge this legally, the more they fuck up procedurally, the more it's to your advantage.

I think rather than go on the word of random strangers who might not be who they say they are, get some proper legal advice. If you have legal cover on your house or car insurance, use it.

@budlea64 I am in exactly the same situation (not a union rep though). Our team haemorrhages staff and nobody cares. I've had conversations with colleagues and they all say exactly the same thing. All sorts of dodgy practice relating to recruitment, and it's the favoured few (arselickers) who get the promotions. There's 'safety in numbers' as they say and now it's coming out in the wash that we all pretty much feel the same, while none of us feels prepared to take it head-on (same culture up the organisation) at least we can have each other's backs.

I completely empathise.

I work in the NHS which is notorious for bullying and the support is woeful.

Im going through something similar and there is no attempt to retain long serving experienced staff .

They want robots .

Public sector here too and it's toxic. Senior managers cannnot stand to be challenged on anything - then they bring in speakers to away days who tell us to challenge everything???

Go figure!!

We had recent CPD with HR and the senior person who heads up the team who support people with Dignity at Work Policy issues.

Both treading very carefuly around people going down the grievance route and wanting them to use the HR officers who help (but can;t actually advise on legal issues).

I asked another friend and her answer was blunt, They should be answerable and following policies as managers otherwise what is the point in having them.

So we will see,