Would you have been burned as a witch?

[Nonplusultra]

I’ve gone down a bit of a rabbit hole reading about the history of witch hunting and I never appreciated the sheer scale of it and how it has affected women for centuries since. It never made sense to me how much women have participated in their own oppression through the centuries, and even today. Why there are such different gender standards around beauty, appearance and aging.

All sorts of women were arrested, brutalised and sadistically tortured for weeks or months (not even necessarily for information because whether they confessed or not , or recanted made little difference) and publicly executed, sometimes horrifically.

The spurious grounds for arrest and interrogation included

being old, or menopausal, or just looking old (statistically most of the women murdered were over 40)

being ugly, unattractive, having bad teeth, scars or bruises on your face, a limp or bad posture, or using artificial means to look more attractive (false eyelashes anyone?)

Being poor, a drain on communal resources (on benefits?),

practising medicine (cater, midwife, nurse, doctor?),

having no relatives, or relatives who don’t like you (anyone estranged from family or not get on with the in-laws?), or related to anyone who might meet the criteria of witch

struggling with your mental health, or related to , or associated with someone with mental health issues

working for anyone suspected of witchcraft, or working for someone who is suspicious of witchcraft - not good to be too good at your job or not good enough. Also being made redundant was a dangerous time.

insolent, mouthy, argumentative, or just too talkative

involved in social unrest (ever been on a march or signed a petition?), expressed anti authority views (commented online?)

causing a man to be impotent (dh ever struggle to keep an errection?) or to lose control of his sexual urges (ever been a victim of SA or rape?)

sexually promiscuous (eg not a nun), knowing anything about contraception, or anything about abortion

likes dancing or drinks alcohol

Dressing in men’s clothing (own a pair of jeans?)

Illwished or cursed anyone (Fottfsof), or made occult signs (flipped the finger?)

And, if you’re a man reading this, knowing or being related to anyone fitting the above criteria could get you dragged in too.

So, would you be likely to be found guilty of witchcraft?

YABU - My conduct is beyond reproach in every way
YANBU - I might have ended up tied to a stake

@SVFXHMX42 absolutely and Ms De Beauvoir was one of the accomplices that she talked about. She went so far as signing petitions to pardon abusers of children and lowering the age of consent. I only found this out recently and it sickened me to the core. She basically procured very women for her dirty old sod of a husband Sarte and his seedy pals. Horrible.

I’m starting to feel a bit nervous that I might turn out to be the most prolific witch finder in history. I’ve unearthed a right coven with you lot.

*young

Assuming having survived to adulthood and then surviving repeated childbirth….

Also, historic femicide is really downplayed in our culture. It should be taught in schools.

Quite a few young women were executed as witches for being very beautiful and refusing the advances of the aristocracy or causing the village priest to have wet dreams and hard ons just by being visible.

They also believed witchery ran in the bloodline, so if your dementia riddled crone of a Nan got marked as a witch they come for your mum and you even if you were a child.

I've been increasingly interested in all things witchy. I think it's got an interesting intersection with feminism.

I can thoroughly recommend the Witch podcast on BBC sounds. Wonderful series

I did vote YABU because I’m good at blending in and being invisible.

Yes. I'm also an atheist but that cancels out belief in devils. I'm sure they'd find a reason though! I live alone and have a pet (familiar) too.

Left handed doctor here, currently with very eccentric frizzy perimenopausal hair. The nature of my job means I also need to tell much younger male doctors in training what to do as well as have robust discussions with often male surgeons. I’d definitely be in trouble.

It’s interesting/scary how many of the accusations were from family or neighbours. An argument, a disagreement, a tragedy, got twisted into ‘she’s a witch.’ (In Essex, there were a few men accused too, but it was overwhelmingly women.)

I find it curious that the word ‘hysteria’ is often used to describe the time. The etymology of the word is inherently misogynistic, though I know its meaning has evolved.

So fascinating:) did they actually include the reasons in the trial reports? They must be an interesting read (distressing too)

I listened to a talk last year from and author and lecturer who lives locally to us and has a PhD in studying witchcraft (apparently he is the only ‘witch doctor’ in the whole country) . He’s written 2 interesting books. Not condoning any of it, but actually not that many people were executed overall. His view was it was actually not driven by purely by misogyny. It was about an 80/20 split of women accused to men but that was more because people tended to blame witch craft on matters that concerned the home or homestead more often (people falling ill, crops failing, children dying etc). It was usually used as a way of seeking revenge on people who you didn’t like or had crossed you, so other women were often accused by other women. Men would be more likely to retaliate with a fight or a dual or act of violence on each other. Women didn’t have this option. Also people who did certain undesirable jobs were often accused, such a laying out the dead, and they were also more likely to be women. Midwives and healers fall into the category of ‘cunning folk’ and people generally left them alone, because they needed their knowledge. I was fairly surprised on this take of it but he has studied each case for years so he must know his stuff.

Yes we moved schools

I am ugly with a long, witch like nose so yes.

Without a shadow of doubt. Still expecting it now to be fair.

Almost certainly. I have a cat, I grow veg and herbs in the garden, and I have opinions.

Oh, and I'm distantly related to the Lancashire witches too.

We didn’t burn witches in England!

Well I live between Canewdon and Chelmsford, witch 🧙‍♀️ central! I’m thinking about going back in to reflexology ( seeing only menopausal/post menopausal women) so , they could just wait in a bush and grab me and anyone who came to my door !

@User98866
Men would be more likely to retaliate with a fight or a dual or act of violence on each other. Women didn’t have this option.

Yes, historically that's always been the way. Weapon of choice for men - physical violence, weapon of choice for women - reputational damage. My mother was ostracised from the "right circles" in our village for the crime of being an attractive young widow. The rumours that other women spread about her would be laughable if they hadn't been so damaging.

That is true. Witches were hung or crushed.

@Kernackered

They may not be a sign of sex with the devil but the bloody feel like it!

Agree with pp who have pointed out the witch hunting dynamic of labelling karens and terfs. The impulse to turn on troublesome middle aged women is clearly not dead. A similarity that always particularly strikes me is that the righteous rage is based on invisible mystical harm being done by the noncompliance of those who should be endlessly giving mother types. Then - she cast the evil eye and that is why so-and-so died or is suffering. Now - she doesn’t believe in gendered souls which is literal violence, makes her responsible for suicide and murder, and makes her the cause of teenage angst. The trial dynamics are also similar in that your apology must be self-abasing and grovelling but you’re only really seen as redeemed when you join in the persecution of further witches.

Just being a woman. The Inquisition's handbook, the Malleus Maleficarum, called the uterus the source of evil. If you were a 'pure' woman, you had to constantly guard against the evil in your pelvis by praying a lot, wearing amulets and being very apologetic for carrying evil around in you.

If you had a bout of 'hysteria' - which could be anything from being a bit grumpy to losing the plot entirely - it was caused by your uterus roaming around your body, animated by evil spirits. This necessitated exorcism, which often came with a large helping of torture. Most of this torture centred around the genitals (don't look it up!)

Through most of recorded history, one of the popular cures for a 'hysterical' wandering uterus was an orgasm. The Catholic church came up with the evil spirit diagnosis, possibly due to intense disapproval of female sexuality.

Up to the 1960s, priests in Ireland were still exorcising women who had orgasms!

I have a stammer, would that see me tied to a Ducking stool?