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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Would you have been burned as a witch?

200 replies

Nonplusultra · 01/10/2023 08:13

I’ve gone down a bit of a rabbit hole reading about the history of witch hunting and I never appreciated the sheer scale of it and how it has affected women for centuries since. It never made sense to me how much women have participated in their own oppression through the centuries, and even today. Why there are such different gender standards around beauty, appearance and aging.

All sorts of women were arrested, brutalised and sadistically tortured for weeks or months (not even necessarily for information because whether they confessed or not , or recanted made little difference) and publicly executed, sometimes horrifically.

The spurious grounds for arrest and interrogation included

being old, or menopausal, or just looking old (statistically most of the women murdered were over 40)

being ugly, unattractive, having bad teeth, scars or bruises on your face, a limp or bad posture, or using artificial means to look more attractive (false eyelashes anyone?)

Being poor, a drain on communal resources (on benefits?),

practising medicine (cater, midwife, nurse, doctor?),

having no relatives, or relatives who don’t like you (anyone estranged from family or not get on with the in-laws?), or related to anyone who might meet the criteria of witch

struggling with your mental health, or related to , or associated with someone with mental health issues

working for anyone suspected of witchcraft, or working for someone who is suspicious of witchcraft - not good to be too good at your job or not good enough. Also being made redundant was a dangerous time.

insolent, mouthy, argumentative, or just too talkative

involved in social unrest (ever been on a march or signed a petition?), expressed anti authority views (commented online?)

causing a man to be impotent (dh ever struggle to keep an errection?) or to lose control of his sexual urges (ever been a victim of SA or rape?)

sexually promiscuous (eg not a nun), knowing anything about contraception, or anything about abortion

likes dancing or drinks alcohol

Dressing in men’s clothing (own a pair of jeans?)

Illwished or cursed anyone (Fottfsof), or made occult signs (flipped the finger?)

And, if you’re a man reading this, knowing or being related to anyone fitting the above criteria could get you dragged in too.

So, would you be likely to be found guilty of witchcraft?

YABU - My conduct is beyond reproach in every way
YANBU - I might have ended up tied to a stake

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Original poster
Nonplusultra · 01/10/2023 08:27

@BlackcatsAndPumpkins It absolutely fascinated me how we see witches as something scary (even if it’s lighthearted in our culture today) but it was the witch hunters that we should be terrified of.

OP posts:
Rollinghill · 01/10/2023 08:29

That's a really interesting thread, thank you. It's so easy to 'other' it - as in oh that happened to 'other' people.

Original poster
Nonplusultra · 01/10/2023 08:29

@Lengokengo you say cowardly goody goody, I say finely honed survival instincts

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Original poster
Nonplusultra · 01/10/2023 08:29

@Rollinghill isn’t it?

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AlisonDonut · 01/10/2023 08:29

Most definitely.

I've been called a witch since I was a late teen. So that's 30 odd years.

Mammma91 · 01/10/2023 08:30

I’d have been hunted down and tortured publicly. 🫠 wow sometimes you can’t believe this was real life! Woke up this morning looking like a bloody witch too.

MenopauseSucks · 01/10/2023 08:30

Don't have voting on the app but yes....

I believe I would be burned at the stake - fit a fair few of the criteria!

SunshineDaisiesButterMellowxx · 01/10/2023 08:31

100%* *cackles🧹

Dilbertian · 01/10/2023 08:31

I love Terey Pratchett's view of witches.

I think I'd probably have been safe because I was always such a Good Girl. I pretty much did what I was told. Though after several years on Mumsnet...

whattttttodo · 01/10/2023 08:31

Autistic with a tendency to go off into my own world and not hear anything around me. I doubt I'd have made it to 15.

There's a wonderful book written by a autistic author whos autistic character feels an infinity between past witches and autistic women and fights for a commemoration for women who lost their lives due to being suspected witches

Original poster
Nonplusultra · 01/10/2023 08:32

@whattttttodo if you think of the name of that book I’d love to read it.

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Fruitsaladsieve · 01/10/2023 08:35

well I’ve pretty much been through a modern day witch hunt!!! Accused of FII (munchausens by proxy) and nearly lost my dc, all because I’m autistic so present differently and when my dc have been diagnosed with medical issues I made sure I learnt as much as possible and pushed (obsessively) for the best care and to be under the best teams. This was seen as ‘doctor shopping’ and ‘exaggerating’ and ‘wanting support as a way to get attention’ 🤦‍♀️ oh and I’ve edited to add that me claiming dla for them was apparently me saying they were ill for financial gain as I wasn’t working ! Horrific

batsandeggs · 01/10/2023 08:35

Left handed and have a birthmark the length of my leg. Wouldn’t have made it past infancy!

Zofloraqueen27 · 01/10/2023 08:35

Only if I lived in Scotland where witches were cruelly burned, though strangled first. In England witches were hanged.

whattttttodo · 01/10/2023 08:35

@Nonplusultra it's called A kind of Spark by Ellie McNicoll

YetAnotherSpartacus · 01/10/2023 08:36

I don’t know the book but I am of the view that we need to take more seriously the mass misogynistic femicide that was the torture and persecution of women accused of witchcraft.

Too often it is joked about and trivialised (because they were women).

Original poster
Nonplusultra · 01/10/2023 08:36

@Fruitsaladsieve I’m sorry that happened to you.

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Neolara · 01/10/2023 08:37

whattttttodo · 01/10/2023 08:31

Autistic with a tendency to go off into my own world and not hear anything around me. I doubt I'd have made it to 15.

There's a wonderful book written by a autistic author whos autistic character feels an infinity between past witches and autistic women and fights for a commemoration for women who lost their lives due to being suspected witches

I was just about to mention this book. I think it's called A Kind of Spark. It's a tween / teen book. Was our holiday driving audio book recently. Was excellent.

NalafromtheLionKing · 01/10/2023 08:37

BlackcatsAndPumpkins · 01/10/2023 08:24

There's an interesting article about Matthew Hopkins who was paid a lot of money to hunt down witches,he was a very evil man. I think they made a film starting Vincent Price about him, also a play.
I live on my own with three black cats, so inevitably l would have either been hung or drowned.

https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofEngland/Matthew-Hopkins-WitchFinder-General/

It just makes me shudder.

Matthew Hopkins, Witch-Finder General

Matthew Hopkins, Witch-Finder General. He and his associates are believed to have been responsible for the deaths of 300 women, accused of witchcraft, between 1644 and 1646...

https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofEngland/Matthew-Hopkins-WitchFinder-General/

MrsJackRackam · 01/10/2023 08:38

Witch Trials podcast is excellent. Also Suzanna Lipscomb's docu, Witch Hunt is worth a watch.
I'm moley, mouthy and Scottish so yes, odds wouldn't be good for me.

Original poster
Nonplusultra · 01/10/2023 08:38

@YetAnotherSpartacus I need to think more about this to be able to articulate it properly , but yes, I agree. But I think that part of the reason we dismiss women’s issues is also due to the massive disciplinary effect of these persecutions. It’s all knotted together.

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Fruitsaladsieve · 01/10/2023 08:38

Nonplusultra · 01/10/2023 08:36

@Fruitsaladsieve I’m sorry that happened to you.

Luckily we had a very very good SW who although had no choice to do a CP investigation made sure she looked at everything with an open mind that she was given by school - she went to the top and spoke to the dcs actual consultants and saw us and was lovely, I was so
grateful to her she was a brilliant SW

Fruitsaladsieve · 01/10/2023 08:40

Some of the things written about me by school were so spiteful ! That I was ‘strange’ and ‘doesn’t talk to the other parents’ and vague things where they said I just gave them ‘a bad feeling’ and they had to record it as it’s ‘all part of a puzzle ‘???

itsgettingweird · 01/10/2023 08:40

Oh gaaawwwddd - I've had been burnt at the stake 🫣🤣🤣🤣

Original poster
Nonplusultra · 01/10/2023 08:40

@Fruitsaladsieve I’m so glad it worked out, and that you were lucky to get a great SW.
And I’m furious that presenting differently because of your autism brought that trauma into your family.

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