anyone else a bit suspicious about this nursery whistleblower doc?

[minouminou]

she doesn't half seem to be good at getting jobs
unless the buttons and mark warner jobs were 2 out of many she applied for

Of course I know I wind people up! Is that not the point of heated debate? What we need, I feel, is more honest heated debate about parenting issues and less 'patting each other on the back'. Parents need honest advice not necessarily online 'support' which is neither use nor ornament.

If I ask for advice I expect to be told where I am going wrong and what I should be doing. I make and have made many mistakes as a parent, I hope to learn from my mistakes. I have always preferred people with strong views and principles (you know where you stand). I identify more with Xenia than some others on here (we are polar opposites but at least have the courage to see the world in black and white).

(as I think I said before) there is little or no point to all the other-people-bashing in this debate. A good parent is better than a bad nursery - but a reasonable nursery is better than a terrible (violent, abusive, permanently fried on crystal meth) parent. And spending time in not-that-great-daycare is probably less bad for small children than having to sleep in a cardboard box under a bridge because their parents had to stop working due to lack of suitable childcare and subsequently lost the family home...
While there will always be badly-performing businesses in every walk of life, this particular area of worry won't be fixed until these things are fixed.

1. WOmen are universally percieved as people, not domestic appliances that don't need an income
2. Housing costs fall and bottom-end incomes rise
3. More jobs become more flexible in terms of what hours of work are required to do the job properly.

Seeing the world in black in white does not take courage, it takes ignorance.

Just read that back and realise that seeing the world in 'black and white' is not necessarily a good thing. What I mean is having the courage to say what you feel is right. Most people on here say, 'do what is right for you' or 'whatever you feel is right for your family' what does that bloody mean? Ask someone what they feel is morally 'right' and then agree with them, disagree with them, laugh your head off or certify them, but at least applaud them for having the courage of their convictions.

Madamez - one couldn't argue with your hierarchy of awfulness, however, why should parents put up with crap childcare - god knows they are paying through the nose for it!

By putting up with sub-standard care, we are all perpetuating arrangements which have poorer outcomes that all our children deserve. Why would any parent turn a blind eye to poor child care, just because our children might still be better off than some hypothetical junkies child or a cardboard box dweller on the motorway?

madamez, i agree with every word. vehemently. (ina tired sort of way, y'understand)

hi soph

Nicetry - it means what it says on the box!

It means - as a poster on MN, I am not intimately acquainted with every detail of your life and don't know all of the circumstances behind the decisions you think are best for your family, therefore I will do you the courtesy of not assuming I do.

I agree soapbox but at least have some 'opinions' on something.
Excellent post madamez.

LOL - I have opinions on lots of things Nicetry - some of which are more popular than others

But I usually foreward people when I post on topics that are likely to get me venting - although by no means has that got me off the hook

nicetry, peddling your opinions as facts makes you look a bit judgemental and not v clever or sensitive tho.
and if you are those things, wouldnt you rather not come across as tho you arent?

agree with you soapbox, on the greyness of life.

Soapbox, oh I agree, we should all be demanding better quality childcare, but it can;t be done in isolation, can it? More government funding for childcare would be good, but (as with everything that needs more government funding) where do the funds come from? I am sure (she says wearily) that everyone on MN can pop up and offer their own favourite example of wasted government money, whether that's Cherie Blair's hairdresser, grants for opera houses or knitting classes for one-legged sexually deviant foreigners but can you argue that childcare should be a higher priority than (for example) respite care for the elderly? Better recycling initiatives? Kidney transplants?

Tut - that should have said 'forewarn'!

Madamez - I agree to some extent, but the fees these parents are paying are astronomical in the main, so I'm not sure that lack of money is the issue.

Message withdrawn

No but it is news that the people who are supposed to be telling us which are the shit nurseries are not only failing to do so but are often approving the shit nurseries.

Message withdrawn

Is Nicetry still here ?
EVERYBODY , just ignore her. She says the most ridiculous things, deliberatly trying to upset people.

JUST IGNORE NICETRY, SHE IS A .......

And Nicetry does work. So she is a complete hypocrite.
So just ignore.

Nicetry: 'I still feel a mother is the most experienced and enthusiastic carer for her own child. Why is that so controversial? I thought it was fact!'

Strangely I remember from another recent thread , nicetry, that you said your dh thought He was a better parent than you on the days he looked after your dcs. Hmmmmm, would that make it your Fact against his Opinion? Or maybe it only counts as Fact if it is You who is of that opinion.

Great posts, soapbox, madamez.

I am not naieve . I do not believe all nurseries are great. But I am happy with ds's. He has been to 2. Both of them , have had the same staff, for 4 years. Thier t/o of staff is very low. And I am happy with their care.
Of course I don't know what goes on when I am not there. What a silly argument. I don't know what goes on at dh's work or any school or anywhere else really. So I can't see the logic of that argument.
We don't know what goes on at school, with or children, when we leave. So lets not send them. Yeah , right.
Thats it. End of.

Nicetry :
"I realise my views are unwelcome and in the minority on these threads but that does not bother me. If you would prefer me to not post and all agree with each other (nice and cosy) then so be it."
Yes Nicetry that is how we feel. We really wish you would go away, becasue you and your deliberate intenytions to upset, aare not welcome here.
PLEASE GO AWAY.
TAKE YOUR OWN ADVICE AND GET LOST

I am puzzled as to how this thread has turned into a debate about SAHM v WOHM. . The report demonstrated that there are some shocking nurseries that are badly run and we also know that there are some fantastic nurseries out there as well as a lot that fall somewhere inbetween. What is there to debate?

Chequers, good point that about Ofsted also inspecting schools. Which is a big part of what they do. The Ofsted stamp of approval is not necessarily goldplating for highly rated schools either.

If the programme were about poorly performing schools (as opposed to nurseries), would the same parents whose dcs go to school then pull all of their children out of school, in the same way some posters seem to be urging parents who use nurseries to do, based on the programme?

I suspect not. If you and dcs are happy with your school/nursery, there is no reason to change. The programme makes not one iota of difference. I suspect the programme is only interesting because it is another stick to beat working parents with, after all it would be working parents in the main who rely on nurseries and cms.

soapbox, in the world of nurseries, you are right, parents don't and will not put up with substandard care. The best short term solution is to vote with your feet. I know if I could not find a nursery that dd liked, I would have investigated nannies and cms. It is not denial that my nursery is good when in fact it is shit . It is market forces at its best.

Actually, I think I pretty much do know what goes on in our nursery when I am not there.
I very much doubt that if staff spent the majority of the day shouting at or leaving my children to cry on the floor, that they would all of a sudden climb into their lap for a cuddle just so mummy could think they were happy with their carers at pickup-time.......And of course as they get older they tell you.

Actually I would like some more credit for choice of childcare.

I agre with Blueshoes.
This is total over-reacting. If your school doesn't get a brilliant ofsted report, we all pull our children out, do we ? of course not.
When you decide on a nursery, it is based on many many things. Ofsted report may be part of it. Their reputation. Convienience. The cost. But mainly, just what you 'feel' when you go there. Do you like it. Do you feel comfortable. Do you think your child will be happy there ? Plus other decisions personal to each parent.
I take on board such an ivestigation. But it doesn't change how I feel about ds's nursery.