Who is in the wrong - vegan or manager?

[iloverobbrydon]

A group of friends go into a pub that do food. One of them is vegan. She looks at the menu and sees that there are no V or VE signs on the menu at all. Even for items that clearly veggie and vegan, the pub don't use the signs. However, they do list the ingredients and a description of the meal under the meal title.

There are 2 or 3 vegan options. One of them is a pasta where the ingredients are listed as pasta, tomato, basil etc. And have a little description of the taste. No animal products listed at all so the vegan orders this.

The meal comes out and it has a fried egg on top of it. The egg was not listed in the ingredients so she sent it back explaining why.

The manager who took the order is not happy because she never actually said she was vegan and they arent mind readers. They come out and say if you can't eat certain foods then you need to tell the staff to make sure that those things are actually 100% ok for you to eat.

It does escalate into a bit of an argument because the vegan is saying well if you list your ingredients then how am I to know that you only list some ingredients and not others? Where on your menu does it say how your menu works and that you won't list everything? That's just confusing. Either list everything or nothing. The manager is saying if you need a meal to not have an ingredient you need to tell us.

You can probably work out which one I am but I didn't want to write it one sided, just wanted to explain the situation and ask who you think is in the wrong here?

No.

This goes double for allergies because the all of the food on the plate is contaminated with the allergen.

I would expect the vegan to check, certainly.

But I would also expect the restaurant to label their food appropriately.

I would be very surprised to get a fried egg on a pasta dish if I wasn't expecting it, so yanbu to have been taken aback by that. But yabu to have assumed that the meal was vegan without checking - as a pp has said, non-vegan ingredients could easily have been used in the pasta itself, and they presumably didn't list the individual ingredients actually used to make the pasta?

I'm not vegan, but usually eat vegetarian when I'm out. I hate fried eggs and would be bloody livid if a tomato and basil pasta dish came with an unstated fried egg on top. Vegan was right, manager and menu were wrong.

An egg is a pretty big thing to not mention, but why wouldn't you check, in case there's butter or something?

Pasta is generally made for eggs!

Also not vegan but would have sent the meal back. I hate fried eggs, and certainly would not want or expect one on pasta marinara. Should I have asked the wait staff if the pasta came with a fried egg? Or massive slice of ham? Or southern fried chicken? How many non-traditional ingredients should I check for?

All the people saying it's on her to check - sorry, that's crazy. Had the pasta artived as described, she would have eaten it. It's not a 'hidden' ingedient, it's a bloody great fried egg on top!

1. There is no meal that can’t be improved by popping a fried egg on top.
2. The vegan was in the wrong, unless it actually states it’s vegan I think you need to check, it could’ve had chicken stock etc in it.

The pub -I'm not vegan but I don't eat eggs so I'd have sent it back too. Additionally a good pub/restaurant should ask re allergies etc. Basically list all the ingredients or just give the dish name.

@iloverobbrydon for future information, generally most chefs will cook dishes in butter, so you really do need to start telling people when you're ordering that you're vegan x

@PumpkiPie it would also be good practice not to list SOME ingredients. It's a recipe for disaster (mind the pun).

You either list all ingredients or no ingredients, otherwise it falls under the banner of misleading people into thinking they have the knowledge of all ingredients and therefore they don't ask about allergens.

Either way, very poor practice and a poor manager.

Manager is in the wrong. I'd not want an egg on my pasta either and would send it back.

Surely we shouldn't have to make sure meals don't contain random things we don't want. 'I'll have the pasta, but please make sure it doesn't come with a fried egg on top...or a pineapple ring, or Brussels sprouts, or croutons, or...' it could go on forever 😂

I once ordered steak and ale pie and it had a layer of mashed potato in the bottom of the pie 🤢 not mentioned on the menu and I hate potato. I scraped it out but I'd have ordered something else if I'd known!

The manager is definitely in the wrong, they shouldn't have had a go at the customer even if they weren't, and putting a friend egg on top of pasta is just bizarre. Even more bizarre that they didn't list it in the ingredients. I'm not vegan, but I'd not want a friend egg on my pasta and would probably send it back too!

Exactly right.

OP has framed this in terms of veganism, and so people are talking about dietary preferences. But not wanting random fried eggs added to dishes isn't a dietary preference. In the same way that if you order a fried egg in a pub, you wouldn't feel the need to check whether it was going to come topped with tomato and basil pasta.

The vegan was in the wrong and being tiresome by making this into an issue, when it could have been so easily avoided
(the vegan could have asked: is this pasta vegan?” Waiter: “ no it has an egg”)

this was a trouble seeking vegan IMO

Both at fault.

If the customer has specific dietary requests they should be made known at the time of ordering. Most menus have this in small writing but it's common sense.

The manager was probably not the chef but should know what each meal comprises of.

This. Eggs turn my stomach and I’d be really pissed off if a pasta dish appeared crowned with a bloody egg.

You’re a bit of a novice vegan aren’t you? Don’t you know that part of being an vegan is being paranoid that there will be dairy and other animal products in EVERYTHING and forcing waiting staff to swear an affidavit of veganity while ordering?

Ignoring the random fried egg, that dish could have been made with egg pasta tossed in butter and seasoned with Parmesan cheese. I would not have expected any of those ingredients to be listed and if I were a vegan I would have asked.

Manager does sound rude though -and the dish sounds weird. I love a fried egg on top of noodles, or in tomato sauce on a shakshuka but on pasta with tomato sauce? Nope.

I’m not vegan, but can’t stand fried eggs. Would I also have been making an issue to send the pasta back when tomato pasta doesn’t normally come with a fried egg, and there was no mention of that on the menu? Should we all be taking a list of things we dislike to restaurants and checking with the waiter just in case?

I do think the OP should have checked, in case the pasta wasn’t vegan or the sauce was cooked with butter. But the restaurant should have made it clear what the dish actually was.

Technically the manager is right, because it doesn’t state those foods are vegan/vegetarian and if the customer tried to seek legal action it wouldn’t work because they’ve covered their backs. However, I do think it’s unreasonable to add items on to meals that are not included in the description, so in that case I’d expect them to remake the meal without egg or give a refund voucher of equivalent cost.

The vegan is correct, plus putting a fried egg on top of of a standard pasta dish is weird and unwelcome for almost everybody.

They are being deliberately difficult for vegans and vegetarians in the first place by refusing to use the V and VE symbols. If they list ingredients, customers should be able to expect to receive those ingredients.

It's common to just give a description of the dish with a main overview of what's in it (although a fried egg is an odd thing not to mention). If they listed every single ingredient, then the menu would be like a big book.
People with allergies never assume they ask if the waiting staff haven't already done so and the information must be provided.
People who are vegan shouldn't assume the dish is vegan unless stated on the menu because, as people have said, it could be made using butter, meat stock, egg pasta, etc. The establishment didn't know the person was a vegan, so wouldn't assume they were based on the fact they had ordered something no labelled as being so.

I think everyone agrees about the egg being an odd choice to put on pasta, whatever your dietary requirements!

"You’re a bit of a novice vegan aren’t you? Don’t you know that part of being an vegan is being paranoid that there will be dairy and other animal products in EVERYTHING and forcing waiting staff to swear an affidavit of veganity while ordering?"

No. If you're trying to be funny, you're not.

No. There just needs to be a disclaimer that you need to make staff aware if you have an allergy or dietary requirements.

Since when were staff supposed to specifically ask about allergies?

I've never heard of this. Menus usually say something like 'please inform staff of any allergies or dietary requirements.'

Manager wrong egg could easily be an allergen they should label their menu better