Who is in the wrong - vegan or manager?

[iloverobbrydon]

A group of friends go into a pub that do food. One of them is vegan. She looks at the menu and sees that there are no V or VE signs on the menu at all. Even for items that clearly veggie and vegan, the pub don't use the signs. However, they do list the ingredients and a description of the meal under the meal title.

There are 2 or 3 vegan options. One of them is a pasta where the ingredients are listed as pasta, tomato, basil etc. And have a little description of the taste. No animal products listed at all so the vegan orders this.

The meal comes out and it has a fried egg on top of it. The egg was not listed in the ingredients so she sent it back explaining why.

The manager who took the order is not happy because she never actually said she was vegan and they arent mind readers. They come out and say if you can't eat certain foods then you need to tell the staff to make sure that those things are actually 100% ok for you to eat.

It does escalate into a bit of an argument because the vegan is saying well if you list your ingredients then how am I to know that you only list some ingredients and not others? Where on your menu does it say how your menu works and that you won't list everything? That's just confusing. Either list everything or nothing. The manager is saying if you need a meal to not have an ingredient you need to tell us.

You can probably work out which one I am but I didn't want to write it one sided, just wanted to explain the situation and ask who you think is in the wrong here?

They can't possibly list every single thing - they always ask if you can't eat anything - and if you say they'll adjust. Did they list the oil, and the salt, and the butter, and was there egg in the pasta? Just say what you don't eat and they'll accommodate.

Fresh pasta is but not dried

I’m with the vegan
Vegans and vegetarians should not have to announce to everyone what they are. The menus should be clear.
The manager was out of order.
I would also say listing pasta does not mean it’s vegan, as a lot of pasta contains eggs.

The manager was definitely in the wrong.

@Munchingaway
Disagree. The menu is clear. It doesn't list any vegetarian or vegan items. Unusual. But it's not the law that it needs to.

Ideally the waiting staff ask if there are any allergies but they don't have to list it on the menu because the customer has the opportunity to ask when ordering. The establishment must then have the information available.

Op if you do leave a review, they didn't do anything wrong from a legal perspective regarding allergies (although it is good practice to ask the customer).

The manager is totally in the wrong.

The manager. Egg is a serious allergen!

I agree.

It’s different if it was perhaps a full English and ask for no sausages but I wouldn’t think to tell the staff I was vegan if I was eating tomato pasta.

You might almost think that they put the egg on an otherwise vegan dish on purpose, in order to cause trouble.

Any culpability on the part of the vegan for not being more forensic when ordering has been blown out of the water by the manager's atrocious behaviour. Where were you eating? Fawlty Towers?!

I would be leaving blistering reviews. How dare she treat a customer so poorly.

Agree with this

Agree there’s no law.
But why list some of the main ingredients but not the egg…that’s a basic mistake. The menu therefore isn’t clear.
Id say why bother listing just some of the ingredients.

Manager is wrong.

I’m a restaurant manager and was a vegan for several years - if a menu doesn’t label dishes as vegetarian or vegan then you definitely need to check that what you are ordering is vegan/veggie. As others have said, there could be egg in the pasta itself if fresh pasta, meat stock used in the sauce etc. even on a dish that seems vegan - in the same way you have to check ingredients in the supermarket.

I’m assuming the menu had the name of the dish on it, with an accompanying description. These descriptions are not intended to list every single component of a dish, or the menu would be like a paperback book! All restaurants should have an allergy menu available on request, which will list each dish and which of the 14 main allergens they contain. Most restaurants should also be able to tell you if a dish contains another ingredient outside of the 14 main allergens, though this can be difficult. For example, if someone has a garlic allergen - as it is not one of the 14 it does not have to be listed on ingredients. So a restaurant may use a stock paste which does not list garlic as an ingredient, but that does not mean they can guarantee it doesn’t contain garlic, as this could be labelled as “flavouring” etc.

If you have a dietary requirement/allergen/intolerance, don’t assume that something “looks fine” on a menu. If you let the staff know, they can tell the chef accordingly, and in the case of allergens a full allergen procedure will then be followed - gloves changed, fresh chopping boards, ingredients taken out of the fridge rather than on the passé where they may have been contaminated. Separate fryers can be used etc. In this case, the same could/would be done to ensure animal products were not present. Going forward, I would tell the waitress when ordering that you’re vegan and check that what you have ordered is vegan. If they don’t have anything vegan on the menu, the chef should be able to make something vegan off menu for you.

The manager is in the wrong.

While a sensible vegan/someone with a significant reason not to eat the egg would've asked, a fried egg on top of a pasta dish is a bloody big change to the menu. It's unusual and not something most people would typically think to ask about. You don't have to be someone who avoids eggs for that to be undesirable either.

I'm not vegan or allergic, and I wouldn't have wanted or asked about a big fried egg on top of a tomato pasta dish because... why would you?

Pasta has eggs in it.

Someone who has an egg allergy or who is vegan shouldn't be ordering pasta without checking it's the non-egg kind.

POIDH

Manager is in the wrong. 100%

The manager is clearly at fault, but as someone who has to avoid dairy atm (breastfed baby with allergy), I always double check because SO many dishes use butter or milk even when it's not clear.

Most places are very happy to help, and many even suggest ways they can adapt other dishes to make them appropriate, e.g. "We can cook that in oil, rather than butter for you".

Pasta can be made with flour and water or flour and egg. Shouldn't she have clarified this anyway?

I'm not even vegan but would still have complained and sent it back. It's a really significant change to the advertised menu. I make my meal choices based on the advertised components on the menu and my expectations of the resulting taste. Egg on top of pasta sounds revolting and I would never order it!

Manager definitely in the wrong. Even if it is a bit annoying when a customer doesn't state their dietary requirements at the start, his job is to serve the guests and ensure they are happy. If the egg wasn't stated on the ingredients, then how was she to know. I'm sure if she said "just checking my pasta won't come with an EGG cracked on top?" Most places would think she was insane, as it's not exactly the norm (is it?!) Yes, maybe in hindsight she could have just checked it was vegan at the ordering stage, as would have solved the problem. To be honest, most eating establishments these day ask at the start if there are any dietary requirements, and if they implemented that, then, again they wouldn't have these sorts of issues. Just a poor lack of communication, but in this case, the restaurant/pub were at fault in not just apologising, changing the meal, and not causing a big fuss, and trying to blame the paying customer for their lack of menu information.

I do think both are at fault here.

1. The Manager's attitude is unacceptable.
2. You should have said you were vegan, as I would have thought you'd have been checking when ordering that the pasta wasn't made with egg. Egg is often used to make pasta! Also, I would have told them if I were vegan as they may have been cooking it in butter or a pan that has just had butter in it earlier.
3. I have a food allergy and I always declare it when ordering as often my allergen is used as a garnish or on the side of a dish so often isn't listed on the menu description.

If you have a food requirement or a preference which matters to you, then it’s sensible to check. I’m on the side of the manager.