Who is in the wrong - vegan or manager?

[iloverobbrydon]

A group of friends go into a pub that do food. One of them is vegan. She looks at the menu and sees that there are no V or VE signs on the menu at all. Even for items that clearly veggie and vegan, the pub don't use the signs. However, they do list the ingredients and a description of the meal under the meal title.

There are 2 or 3 vegan options. One of them is a pasta where the ingredients are listed as pasta, tomato, basil etc. And have a little description of the taste. No animal products listed at all so the vegan orders this.

The meal comes out and it has a fried egg on top of it. The egg was not listed in the ingredients so she sent it back explaining why.

The manager who took the order is not happy because she never actually said she was vegan and they arent mind readers. They come out and say if you can't eat certain foods then you need to tell the staff to make sure that those things are actually 100% ok for you to eat.

It does escalate into a bit of an argument because the vegan is saying well if you list your ingredients then how am I to know that you only list some ingredients and not others? Where on your menu does it say how your menu works and that you won't list everything? That's just confusing. Either list everything or nothing. The manager is saying if you need a meal to not have an ingredient you need to tell us.

You can probably work out which one I am but I didn't want to write it one sided, just wanted to explain the situation and ask who you think is in the wrong here?

😂

It's only a legal requirement to have any of the 14 major allergens on the label in prepacked for direct sale products (so sealed). Food ordered in a restaurant do not have to label their menu because it's glassed as loose food/pre-ordered, so theirs an opportunity to ask, and the restaurant must have the allergen information available.

I'm not sure why you'd think the dish was vegan if it didn't state it was? Dishes can have alsorts of hidden ingredients in them and often too many to list on a menu.

Both really, though the manager to a larger percent. If you have specific dietary requirements, it is best to say and not assume, just in case. That being said, an egg is a fairly major item, so I would expect it to be listed. I’ve had an egg on Pasta Carbonara before. It was a raw egg yolk, dropped into a dip in the pasta just before serving. It starts to cook and then you mix it through the pasta. Delicious 😋

As someone with food sensitivities I would expect the menu to actually list what is actually in the dish. I've had food come out with gravy that I was not expecting, am I supposed to have just checked whether there was gravy or not with no reason to know it was?

This is 100% on the restaurant. They claim that they're not mind readers, but surely the customer isn't either. I choose food based on what IS there, I don't want to have to list off a large number of things that I don't want

The restaurant and manager are wrong but at the same time if the menu doesn’t state V or VE I would most likely double check “Just making sure this one’s vegan because it doesn’t say on the menu”

Plain sounding tomato pasta would be a safe food for a lot of people and adding something as random as a fried egg would cause issues, vegan or not.

I had the issue once. Ordered a salad that didn't mention it came with pecans on it, and no nut allergen symbol either. Sent it back no issue.

Who puts a fried egg on a bowl of pasta?

Manager definitely in the wrong. And in the wrong by the sounds of it. No knowledge about allergies and zero customer service skills, awful.

I'd be writing a very bad review on tripadvisor and writing to head office if there is one. Do they add other rogue ingredients? How do allergy sufferers eat there safely?

I'm vegetarian; if my pasta came with a steak slapped on top of it, I wouldn't just "push it to one side" and eat the pasta, ffs!

Yes the manager is in the wrong. But if she didn't phone ahead, given the menu, or say when ordering, "I'm vegan, can I assure this is vegan", then she too is in the wrong.

Yeah tbh I probably should've double checked because of things like oil or whatever but I've been veggie for 8 years and only just gone vegan. I'm trying to adjust and honestly just didn't even think about stuff like that. If the menu didn't list the ingredients I would have asked them to point out the vegan meals on their menu. If I later found out something wasn't completely vegan due to animal fat or something I'd probably kick myself but I wouldn't be angry for it or blame them. I would just learn to ask next time.

My problem was it was an egg! A massive egg just on top of my food. I didn't even think to ask because I've never seen it before, plus they listed the ingredients and it didn't mention it.

I very politely sent it back and I apologised. I said oh I'm really sorry I can't eat that as I'm vegan and didn't realise there was egg in it as it wasn't listed. He looked a bit annoyed tbh so I apologised again. But then the manager came out very angry and her attitude was awful. I didn't deserve to be spoken to the way she spoke to me tbh. I had already apologised, I wasn't even angry with them and didn't want to kick up a fuss. What made me angry was the way she handled it and was making out that I was 100% to blame for this and didn't take any responsibility or say something like oh yeah we should probably add that to the menu, sorry about that!

I mean, what if I just don't like eggs?? Should I go through every list of food that I don't like just in case it's in a meal but isn't mentioned in their ingredients? Most menus do this.. for example if you to for breakfast and get a full English it will list what is included. If you get a Sunday lunch it lists what's in it. I've never known a place to just miss something off before. It wouldn't have been as bad if it was on the side but it was plonked right on top

Missing the point, but isn't pasta made with egg? 🤔

Actually I've changed my mind. The manager is not to blame. The menu does not stipulate any vegetarian or vegan options. Whether it should or not, is beside the point. It doesn't. It's not legally obliged to!
So she needs to check!

If a dish has a fried egg on top then the menu should state it. Restaurant is undoubtedly wrong on that.

Buuuut the vegan was also in the wrong. A simple "can I just check whether this dish is vegan?" when ordering would have been no hardship and would have avoided the problem. There could have been egg in the pasta, butter or cream in the sauce. If there are no V or VE labels on the menu then the vegan needs to check. The manager wasn't wrong when she said they're not mind readers. However they obviously haven't heard of "the customer is always right" mantra. They should have just apologised, swapped it and politely explained that it's best to make staff aware in the future. But I wouldn't blame her for walking back into the kitchen, rolling her eyes and having a whinge about the customer.

Agree with @QueenCarrot lots of pasta contains egg.
I'm allergic to several things most people would think are "safe" or "no you can't be allergic to that"
I'm also vegan, would definitely check when eating out,but it's very bizarre of the pub to half show the ingredients.

It was a simple misunderstanding. The vegan could have asked if there was anything ve friendly. The manager should train their staff to always ask the customer if there are any dietary requirements they need to know.

Would anyone here seriously think to check that pasta with tomato sauce didn’t come with a fried egg on top?

Restaurant are completely at fault for that one.

Manager is in the wrong.

Even if it wasn't that you are vegan, you need to know what you're ordering.

I'm not vegan but dislike eggs so I wouldn't order it if I knew, and would be very disappointed to find an unexpected egg on my meal!

They are being very unreasonable for incomplete descriptions, poor customer service and also for putting an egg on top of pasta 🤮

It's not uncommon in Italy. Pizza, too.

Manager is 100% in the wrong.

An egg is an allergy issue for lots of people; it should always be mentioned if it's added randomly to food, etc. An egg on pasta would be a random addition.

Omg I googled it pasta is vegan and it says generally yes. But fresh pasta that you find in the chilled section isn't. So clearly I have been utterly crap so far at trying to do this.

I do accept that double checking with them would've been better and this is why I apologised to them. My thought process was that I thought as they listed the ingredients, they wouldn't miss something so significant off the list. And in todays world so many people are veggie and vegan that surely they would think it was important to list of there was any meat or egg in it?

I think I agree that we were both in the wrong. It's been playing on my mind since last night because I feel really embarrassed about it. Every time I think about it I cringe!

If its not noted as vegan, you shouldn't assume it is. It might not even be an ingredient that makes it non vegan - it might be a serving spoon has been used to serve two tomato based pastas but one might have meat in it. You also don't know if it's freshly made or bought in - if bought in it likely isn't vegan. I am a meat eater but my mum is vegan which is why we always ask if not stated.

No. But if I was vegan, and the menu wasn't clear, I would ask if it was vegan as pasta often has egg in it, and pasta sauces often have anchovy in them, not to mention the possibility of parmesan or pecorino sprinkled on the top.

They're both a bit wrong. Putting an egg on pasta is weird, but as a vegan I wouldn't assume anything is vegan without it being specifically marked.

(And even when stuff is marked it pays to be mindful. I've been served cauliflower cheese, normal Yorkshire puddings, leeks in a cream sauce, all plated up on a 'vegan' Sunday roast... and on further questioning none of them were vegan. Not all at the same place.)

It's always best to ask. Most chips are vegan ingredients wise, but in lots of places if you ask they're cooked in a fryer with meat.