Who is in the wrong - vegan or manager?

[iloverobbrydon]

A group of friends go into a pub that do food. One of them is vegan. She looks at the menu and sees that there are no V or VE signs on the menu at all. Even for items that clearly veggie and vegan, the pub don't use the signs. However, they do list the ingredients and a description of the meal under the meal title.

There are 2 or 3 vegan options. One of them is a pasta where the ingredients are listed as pasta, tomato, basil etc. And have a little description of the taste. No animal products listed at all so the vegan orders this.

The meal comes out and it has a fried egg on top of it. The egg was not listed in the ingredients so she sent it back explaining why.

The manager who took the order is not happy because she never actually said she was vegan and they arent mind readers. They come out and say if you can't eat certain foods then you need to tell the staff to make sure that those things are actually 100% ok for you to eat.

It does escalate into a bit of an argument because the vegan is saying well if you list your ingredients then how am I to know that you only list some ingredients and not others? Where on your menu does it say how your menu works and that you won't list everything? That's just confusing. Either list everything or nothing. The manager is saying if you need a meal to not have an ingredient you need to tell us.

You can probably work out which one I am but I didn't want to write it one sided, just wanted to explain the situation and ask who you think is in the wrong here?

The egg should have been included in the list of ingredients.
Can you remember the name of the pasta dish?
I have seen a few pasta and pizza dishes on menus that contain eggs. They don't appeal to me so I have never tasted them.

Different issue to the veganism. Maybe it was a fabulous dish with the egg on it, who knows! If OP wasn’t vegan and didn’t fancy the egg she’d either just put it to the side of the plate and eat the rest, or (after trying it) tell the manager that the dish didn’t taste good/work with the rest of the dish and she’d like to order something else.

That's a different kettle of fish to having a dietary requirement, not communicating to the restaurant that you have a dietary requirement or checking if your chosen dish is suitable for that dietary requirement and then wanting a free meal.

Not putting egg as an ingredient is weird because you might actually just dislike egg BUT I do think you absolutely 100% need to check with the staff because any recipe might have a dash of cream or milk added but wouldn’t necessarily be listed as a ‘main ingredient’ in a dish. She should have just said I’m vegan can I check which dishes I can have. She’s just being pedantic by not asking in my opinion

I don’t like eggs. Would never choose a dish where you can see or taste the egg. I’d have sent it back, too. The restaurant should have made it clear that a fried egg was a main component of the meal, because it’s just not within the range of normal expectations when you order pasta with tomato. I wouldn’t have asked if that had a fried egg any more than I would have asked if a halloumi wrap came with prawns.

Both in the wrong. But, as a coeliac, it's 100% on me to ask for an allergen menu (almost always separate to the main menu), to tell the waiting staff (and to ask them to tell the kitchen, too), and to double check that something listed as GF is actually gluten-free (you'd be surprised how often 'GF' is inaccurate). I can never rely on what's printed on menus.

OP, as you're newly vegan this is something you will get used to - as I did, when I was diagnosed. For me it's more of a pain (as a mistake = illness), but it's always, always worth checking.

That said, egg on pasta is batshit, you sound like you handled it very well, and the manager sounds awful and shouldn't be in their job.

@iloverobbrydon Fresh pasta has egg in it. I would always expect fresh pasta if eating out, so no, I wouldn’t expect it to be vegan unless specifically stated otherwise. Someone allergic to eggs wouldn’t order fresh pasta.

However… a fried egg is such a weird thing to plonk on top of a pasta dish. I could maybe understand a poached egg yolk, but fried egg white has no place there. No place.

the manager is wrong for arguing, you just replace the meal without an egg - apologise and leave it there.

The manager was in the wrong.

I went out to a restaurant last night and ordered a rice dish. The waiter mentioned it had egg on it - which for some reason it’s not on the menu - I asked them to not include egg. Simple.

Either you make all your serving staff inform customers or you add info like that to the menu. Personally if I ran a business I’d go with the latter so there’s no misunderstanding. But you definitely have to do one of the two things.

The manager is wrong. No item not on the ingredient list should end up in the food. The reason you additionally tell someone about an allergy, is that it could be about an ingredient being no-where near your food. A nut from another dish accidently gets touches the board where a knife used to prepare a nut-allergy suffers meal is sitting and we could have problems, a piece of grated cheese touches the board where a knife used to prepare vegan's meal is sitting - no problems.

The manager handled it badly.

The vegan was a plonker for thinking that every single ingredient was listed. Even when it seems things are it’s almost always just a headline summary. The cooking fat, the seasoning etc generally aren’t.

Even if there wasn’t an egg on it, (which is weird on pasta unless it’s carbonara style) it would have been perfectly reasonable for it to come out with cheese on and there have been the same problem.

Not a great joke, perhaps I misread the tone. Anyways, there’s enough actual vegan bashing on this thread so I “took the bait” (is there a vegan equivalent to that saying?).

No, some non-vegan people who don’t like egg, wouldn’t want it just sitting on their plate or touching their other food. I love eggs but I know some who be queasy at it being on pasta /their plate.

And as for trying it with the egg - if you try the dish you’re normally oblige to pay for it surely?

At one point certain types of dairy was making me sick and I told the staff at Bills I was dairy intolerant and yet the brunch came with a fat dollop of dairy yoghurt. It really annoyed me as I had to eat round something that made me sick and I’d have preferred not to have it on my plate . It’s a waste of space on the plate and a waste of food as well. I did speak to them about it and they just said oh well you’re just intolerant not allergic so it’s fine. I was like erm no it’s not fine.

Just because someone isn’t allergic to something it doesn’t mean they should have it on their plate as a surprise.

@iloverobbrydon it is best to flag you’re a vegan though in case there’s a hidden ingredient in the food.

This is probably the first time in my life that I've sided with a vegan. Fried agg and pasta - I'm heaving!

Both are unreasonable.
If you only want to eat strictly vegan, you should tell a restaurant that and check ingredients.
But the manager sounds rude and ridiculous.
But the most unreasonable person of all was the chef - who the hell sticks a fried egg on a pasta dish without telling the customers? I'd have sent that back, because it's disgusting.

I’m not even a vegan but I would have had a problem if my pasta came with an egg on top. Wtf ?!

Who the heck puts a fried egg on top of tomato pasta?

Long time vegan here. In this instance I would have asked for allergen information. Then I would have 100% clarified if there was egg in the pasta. Not because I would have been expecting a giant egg on the top (wtf??) but because I would be checking if it is egg pasta or not. Most places it isn’t, even the majority of fancy Italian places I’ve been to use vegan pasta. I would use this as the opportunity to tell the server I don’t eat egg and other dairy though. Then I would clarify when ordering is there deffo no cheese in this etc (as I find in restaurants like this the sneaky ingredient is usually cheese).

but I don’t think you’re in the wrong at all here, egg should have been listed?

I’m vegan. I’d never assume a menu item was vegan unless it said so or I was told so.

You say “the ingredients were listed” but it doesn’t sound like they were. “Pasta with tomato and basil” isn’t a list of ingredients. Was there garlic? Onion? Any butter or oil used? What kind of pasta? Egg? Wheat? A vague description of key ingredients is very different to a list of all the ingredients.

On a separate note I would not expect a pasta dish to be topped with an egg if the description didn’t say it was, but I see that as a separate issue.

The restaurant is in the wrong, egg is an allergen and should definitely be listed if there are other ingredients listed on the menu.

YABU op it was on you to check. The menu didn't have any V or VE signs- maybe because they know the meals aren't veggie or vegan! Lots of pasta sauces have anchiovies/eggs in them. It was on you to check. You chose not to. That's on you.

The manager clearly handled this badly though and the menu should have stated it had an egg on top if it had all other ingredients unless it was in the title and you just didn't understand it? Carbonara- a creamy pasta dish seasoned with basil? The descriptions not wrong but you have to know what carbonara is to know theres meat in there. A vegetarian could order thay mistakely but it wouldn't have the V next to it. Because the restaurant knows it's not bloody vegetarian.

I’m really surprised everyone is just believing that the menu in no way stated this dish came with eggs. The OP hasn’t said what the dish was called. To me it is far more likely that it was supposed to be some sort of fusion dish e.g pasta shakshouka with tomato basil sauce, or even nasi goreng pasta with a tomato basil sauce. Basically something that obviously comes with egg and wouldn’t need stating. Way more believable than a restaurant serving tomato basil pasta and calling it tomato basil pasta on the menu but including a random fried egg on top 🤨

If I was vegan I would have said I was vegan and asked which menu items were vegan - especially as pasta isn't always vegan.
But I wouldn't expect a pasta dish with ingredients tomato,, basil etc. to come with a ruddy great fried egg on top.
I'd have been sending that back as the thought of fried eggs turn my stomach.
And no, I shouldn't have to list foods that turn my stomach in case they happen to be in a dish because the description should be clear enough.

Anyone alergic to egg would check about pasta. As you say, there is no law about labelling every ingredient in restaurant food.

I don't disagree that the restaurant sounds a bit poor but @iloverobbrydon is bonkers in ordering a random meal and expecting it to be vegan.

Stupid to list a menu with a main item missing off the picture. Being vegan/vegetarian has nothing to do with it. And you cannot just remove the egg, as the cooking oil or grease from it will taint the food.

Manager is wrong. If you're going to list ingredients list them all or its pointless listing any!

The attitude afterwards is also wrong. They should have apologised and made you a fresh meal!