Who is in the wrong - vegan or manager?

[iloverobbrydon]

A group of friends go into a pub that do food. One of them is vegan. She looks at the menu and sees that there are no V or VE signs on the menu at all. Even for items that clearly veggie and vegan, the pub don't use the signs. However, they do list the ingredients and a description of the meal under the meal title.

There are 2 or 3 vegan options. One of them is a pasta where the ingredients are listed as pasta, tomato, basil etc. And have a little description of the taste. No animal products listed at all so the vegan orders this.

The meal comes out and it has a fried egg on top of it. The egg was not listed in the ingredients so she sent it back explaining why.

The manager who took the order is not happy because she never actually said she was vegan and they arent mind readers. They come out and say if you can't eat certain foods then you need to tell the staff to make sure that those things are actually 100% ok for you to eat.

It does escalate into a bit of an argument because the vegan is saying well if you list your ingredients then how am I to know that you only list some ingredients and not others? Where on your menu does it say how your menu works and that you won't list everything? That's just confusing. Either list everything or nothing. The manager is saying if you need a meal to not have an ingredient you need to tell us.

You can probably work out which one I am but I didn't want to write it one sided, just wanted to explain the situation and ask who you think is in the wrong here?

No, but they need to have an allergen menu available if requested. This person didn’t request it.

I wouldn't have expected an egg (I actually love eggs but that sounds a bit grim), but I wouldn't have wanted to bet against it containing dairy. So I think the way they do the menu sounds stupid, but if something isn't labelled vegan, I wouldn't assume it was.

I'd have asked for clarification when nothing was labelled, some places have separate menus with all of the vegetarian and vegan choices together.

I would never want egg on my veggie pasta, and I eat meat.
Egg is also an allergen so I’d expect them to mention it. Just weird.

Egg may be an allergen, but pasta generally has egg in it anyway so I wouldn't expect to see it flagged for that reason. The assumption should be the dish already contains egg.

However, I think this is a bit weird and as much as I like eggs, I don't want a fried egg plonked on top of pasta!

Naah ... more of an attention seeking form of anxiety.

Never heard of ethics or principles obviously.

Zizi’s was a bit odd when I went in last week. I was asked if I had any allergies, to which I said yes ‘gluten’. I was then handed quite a hefty folder which contained a chart for every meal on the menu. They didn’t even seem to be in any order! No GF or anything on the actual menu, so for every dish you like the look of you have to trawl through the folder! I gave up in the end.

Manager totally in the wrong here. Unfortunately I wouldn’t trust eating out in most places if I was a veggie or vegan. My friend is vegan and when we went out she just ordered chips, the server when waiting on the table next to us overheard us talking about her being vegan and told us that although chips are obviously free from animal products, the oil they are cooked in is also used to cook sausages, chicken strips/wings etc… They just throw it all in the same deep fat fryer 🤢 So her order was cancelled and we went home and she made herself a salad 😕

Which ethics or principles would you be referring to ?

Pastas not vegan anyway seeing as it's made with egg

The manager. Some people just don't like eggs, whether they're vegan or not! They should have said what was in the dish.

Perhaps the OP missed that page when reading her ladybird guide to being a vegan activist ?

As a vegan you probably want to get into the habit of checking, especially as it didn’t actually have a VE label.

Fried egg aside (which is barmy and they are wrong about), maybe they purposely didn’t use the VE label as they use butter, or fresh egg pasta, or meat stock, or anchovies - plenty of things that could be in a pasta dish that would mean it wasn’t V or VE …. and you wouldn’t have a leg to stand on because they never claimed it was.

Fresh or homemade yes.

majority commercial dried pasta isn’t.

Due to food allergies and some of which might be life threatening the restaurant are breaking H&S rules. Report the restaurant to the local food standards so they have a visit.

It should have been listed.

I veggie and hate fish I ordered a simple salad, as everything was listed on the menu it came with a big dollop of tuna on top.

I didn't send it back but wish I would have done - I just didn't eat it. But it now made me question everything to make sure I don't make same mistake again.

Report to food standards agency

https://www.food.gov.uk/business-guidance/allergen-guidance-for-food-businesses#:~:text=Food%20businesses%20need%20to%20tell,as%20allergens%20by%20food%20law.

Incorrect.

Food standards agency state:
"14 allergensFood businesses need to tell customers if any food they provide contain any of the listed allergens as an ingredient.
Consumers may be allergic or have intolerance to other ingredients, but only the 14 allergens are required to be declared as allergens by food law.
The 14 allergens are: celery, cereals containing gluten (such as wheat, barley and oats), crustaceans (such as prawns, crabs and lobsters), eggs, fish, lupin, milk, molluscs (such as mussels and oysters), mustard, peanuts, sesame, soybeans, sulphur dioxide and sulphites (if the sulphur dioxide and sulphites are at a concentration of more than ten parts per million)* and tree nuts* (such as almonds, hazelnuts, walnuts, brazil nuts, cashews, pecans, pistachios and macadamia nuts).
This also applies to additives, processing aids and any other substances which are present in the final product."

That sounds like a great way to support a local business.

Your friends and community should be really proud to have you onboard.

A local business that breaks Food Standards Agency guidelines doesn't deserve to stay open. There are standards and hygiene rules and regulations for reasons like perhaps not killing people. Again you have proved to be a dick two times now, well done you.

3 times a dick. Are you aiming for a record?

Why would she expect an egg to be plopped on top if it wasnt in the ingredients. Such a bizarre menu, it would be much easier to just state V or Ve. Also accurate ingredients have to be listed or readily available by law

The manager is an old-fashioned dick.

But it might not be vegan even without the egg. The kitchen staff might have used the same serving spoon in the kitchen for the pasta sauce and for spaghetti bolognese for example. That would be out of order even for vegetarians let alone vegans!