School refusing to provide translator

[CapturedLeprechaun]

I'm on the Governing body for a school with a really high proportion of kids with English as a second language. It's over 80% of their pupils. Many of the parents speak little or no English at all. There are some families who have been here 5+ years where one or both parents speak no English at all still, and even a "your child has no PE kit, they need to wear their PE kit on Mondays and Wednesdays" wouldn't be understood.

The school always use translators for meetings with parents - either a staff member who speaks that language who is available, or else they have a telephone translator service that they pay for, so the phone is on loudspeaker and a translator translates the conversation.

This is done for all parents evenings/ attendance meetings/ SENCO meetings etc for parents who don't speak or understand English.

Important letters like school trips/consent forms are provided translated in the three most common languages spoken.

The school offers English classes to parents, one held in the school one morning a week in the hall, one held in the evening each week.

School has now said translators will only be provided to parents whose children have been at the school for less than a year. If your child has been at the school for more than a year and you are unable to understand English, no translator will be provided, due to staff shortages and costs, and you have to bring a friend/family member who can translate. Letters will only be provided in English, and parents can use the translate feature on google if they need to.

On the face of this, does this seem a reasonable decision? The head has announced this and I don't know why it doesn't sit right with me, and I can't really articulate why. It has a lot of support from the English speaking parents, but it feels... divisive, I guess? And most likely children who will suffer. Currently trying to weigh up whether this is something I should raise, or accept this is a reasonable step for the school to take.

@Tessabelle74 I was referring to providing interpreters or providing translated materials.

Technically you’re correct but if the school want to actually work effectively and support children with EAL, particularly those who may be vulnerable due to attendance or having SEN (implicit in the fact the OP mentions the SENDCO involvement) it makes more sense to understand the barriers than to just make a blanket rule. In my experience, even if people speak enough English to get by day to day the more technical statutory processes are very difficult to navigate in another language.

@Tessabelle74 I was referring to providing interpreters or providing translated materials.

Technically you’re correct but if the school want to actually work effectively and support children with EAL, particularly those who may be vulnerable due to attendance or having SEN (implicit in the fact the OP mentions the SENDCO involvement) it makes more sense to understand the barriers than to just make a blanket rule. In my experience, even if people speak enough English to get by day to day then more technical statutory processes are very difficult to navigate.

Then translation can be provided in that instance. There's no need to translate everything if people can't be bothered to learn the language their child is communicating in daily. I think a year cut off is more than reasonable.

I think this is very typical of what people expect when they come to Britain. I mean come on, you live here and you learn the language or YOU pay to have the service!

A bilingual school is totally different to one in which many many different languages are spoken.

Totally fair enough. If you moved to a country where you didn’t speak the language, would you expect to be provided with a translator for years on end?

It’s just another cut!!! My school has lost nearly all teaching assistants this year so no intervention groups are taking place to help the children learn to read etc. Therefore money spent on parents should be cut before education

AuxArmesCitoyens

*It's not a universal entitlement, provision is targeted to areas with large immigrant communities. Sections internationales are found all over the country: they are designed in part for foreign children in France in the short term, with combined teaching in French and their native language. Eighteen languages are on offer. There are also UPE2A, or unités pédagogiques pour élèves allophones, for children arriving with little or no French (there's a nice documentary about the students in one class here: https://www.allocine.fr/film/fichefilm_gen_cfilm=221636.html[. In our area of high immigration, primary children are also allowed one afternoon off French school a week to follow the UK curriculum at our local section internationale. In areas with high levels of parental illiteracy, schools can offer free French and literacy lessons: here for instance https://lecafedufle.fr/ouvrir-ecole-parents/

The point is that in areas such as that described by the OP, there absolutely is provision made for non-French speakers*

But even then not every parent, even if they live in an area where this is offered, it is only the illiterate who can access anything*

*Sausagenbacon

Is it a uk thing to view non-English speakers as unfortunates*

Seems like it is a French thing given the lessons for the parents seem to make out they won’t be able to use money or find there way around as well as being illiterate and not speaking French.

@TrudyProud I totally agree with you - in much of SE Asia (and I assume the Gulf) British and other foreigners living there simply don't learn the language at all. I have very few foreign friends here who can speak much Thai, and those who can are mostly married to locals. Even lots of people married to locals don't speak more than a few words. Just knowing numbers, directions, food, and a few other useful phrases genuinely puts my language level above most foreigners, which is shameful really.

When I arrived here, I remember thinking how ridiculous it was that people who've been here 10+ years can't even manage the basics, and I booked myself on a course my first summer to at least get to a level where I could be polite etc with locals. Then my mum came to visit so I couldn't make the course, and after a year being here and dealing with everyday life, including immigration and hospitals etc, I realised why people manage to NOT learn Thai! Still, I'm not proud of it and would definitely learn more if I intended to stay longer (this will be my last year here). It's not an excuse, but I also think the fact that Thai will not be useful to me anywhere outside Thailand, and my intention to only stay a few years, also made me much less motivated.

I lived in Latin America previously and had some Spanish when I arrived, but I was really motivated to improve and got to a really good level quickly and was able to integrate well. I will never integrate here and that is sad.

I don't say any of this to justify foreigners in the UK not learning English; rather, to disabuse people of the notion that Brits abroad learn the local language. If anything, we are probably the worst for staying in our bubbles and relying on employers/colleagues and helpful locals to get by. When I had a flat tyre in the middle of nowhere, alone with my children, I pulled up outside a little shop and the people there immediately helped me, called a man to change the tyre, offered drinks and snacks to my children etc. I phoned a Thai friend just so I had someone to translate if necessary but it wasn't needed as the people who helped me were amazing and didn't try to rip me off at all. I paid the guy a huge tip as he could easily have charged me triple and I would have had to pay it, as I just don't have the skills or knowledge to look after myself properly in this situation. If only people everywhere were as kind and understanding as these random Thai people were!

But nobody's claimed on the thread that British people are bothered to learn the local language when they live abroad.
Nobody.
It's not the point.
The point is .... should the education services have to provide translators/interpretors for you if you haven't learnt after a year's residency.

I think it's worth checking that it is not unlawful discrimination. It's possible this could be racial discrimination.

Why? They're not saying that they CANT have a translator, school are saying 'we don't have the money to do this forever for everyone ' so if one is needed the family need to provide.

Why is it in this country we are willing to bend over backwards to accommodate people who move here for a better life but do absolutely nothing to integrate. You would not get the assistance to learn the language of the country you have moved to anywhere else. We had a place in Spain for 10 years so my husband and I learnt Spanish. It’s manners to speak to people in their own language. Teachers have enough to deal with these days without trying to teach children that can’t speak English. Surely the 20% in this particular school aren’t getting the full amount of education they would if 100% spoke English.

Well it is a point in as much as British expats and the non English speaking ?immigrant parents at this school behave in much the same way wrt local language acquisition

Also the two groups act similarly with respect to where/how they live - 'expat enclaves' vs ghetto-ised non-integrated communities

It's just normal human social behaviour not unique to these lazy entitled parents who have been vilified throughout this thread

It's the same old trope expats=good migrants=bad - again

No.
Nobody is saying expats=good migrants=bad - again
If expats expected this they wouldn't, and shouldn't, get it.

"You feel uneasy by this zero tolerance approach". But it's not zero tolerance at all.

I would never move to France and expect the school to provide a translator for me. It's my responsibility to understand what they're saying.

It's just normal human social behaviour not unique to these lazy entitled parents who have been vilified throughout this thread
And, as far as I'm concerned, they can do whatever they like. I don't care. I just don't want Society to pay for their preference.

PP have said thro' the whole thread in so many different ways some more subtle than others that these parents are 'bad'!! Expats have received nothing like the same disapproval. Who are you trying to kid?

The major and hugely obvious difference between these 2 groups of people are not their morality but their financial resources/experience of adversity

Huh? Normal human social behaviour isn't really a choice or 'preference' as you call it

UK (and other) expats not integrating recieve the same disapproval by many in their host countries, but you don't see that from here understandably

Sure but this thread isn't about that, is it

It's the first time I hear of a school to do it, where I was it was parents responsibility to bring a translator wif they could not be bothered to learn a word of English, usually they had to bring a family member or a friend who did.
That being said, if a member of staff spoke the language, usually we would use them.But never paid for an external translator.

No it isn't. Yet there is a lot of "but what about UK expats abroad"...

Expats have received nothing like the same disapproval. from your own post.
It's logical UK expats abroad will not recieve same amount of disapproval for not learning language on mainly UK based forum as immigrants to UK do. They recieve it at the host country X. Same like expats from country X will not recieve dissaproval for not integrating in host country Y by their people in X but will from people in Y.
To put it simply, people disapprove of problems that affect them mainly. Behavior UK expat to Lebanon will not affect UK based people, so the Lebanese moan. While Lebanese exlat to UK will affect UK based people hence they moan while Lebanese don't. Level of dissaproval is based on how it affects people around them.

I live in Spain and translation services aren’t offered here. You are expected to speak the language or bring someone with you who can. It’s fair enough really. If you live in a country you need to have at least a basic level of understanding of the language where you live. The overwhelming majority of countries do not provide these types of services in schools.