School refusing to provide translator

[CapturedLeprechaun]

I'm on the Governing body for a school with a really high proportion of kids with English as a second language. It's over 80% of their pupils. Many of the parents speak little or no English at all. There are some families who have been here 5+ years where one or both parents speak no English at all still, and even a "your child has no PE kit, they need to wear their PE kit on Mondays and Wednesdays" wouldn't be understood.

The school always use translators for meetings with parents - either a staff member who speaks that language who is available, or else they have a telephone translator service that they pay for, so the phone is on loudspeaker and a translator translates the conversation.

This is done for all parents evenings/ attendance meetings/ SENCO meetings etc for parents who don't speak or understand English.

Important letters like school trips/consent forms are provided translated in the three most common languages spoken.

The school offers English classes to parents, one held in the school one morning a week in the hall, one held in the evening each week.

School has now said translators will only be provided to parents whose children have been at the school for less than a year. If your child has been at the school for more than a year and you are unable to understand English, no translator will be provided, due to staff shortages and costs, and you have to bring a friend/family member who can translate. Letters will only be provided in English, and parents can use the translate feature on google if they need to.

On the face of this, does this seem a reasonable decision? The head has announced this and I don't know why it doesn't sit right with me, and I can't really articulate why. It has a lot of support from the English speaking parents, but it feels... divisive, I guess? And most likely children who will suffer. Currently trying to weigh up whether this is something I should raise, or accept this is a reasonable step for the school to take.

You don't have a choice to be deaf.

Jfc 🙄

Why would it?

I have a parent who speaks English as a second language, who is also deaf, but I don't understand your point? The two really aren't comparable.

It's the right call. How on earth can you live here for 5 years and not speak English? Shocking.

It's easy to say "if you decide to move to another country, you need to learn the language." And of course if I decided to move to say Spain of course I'd learn Spanish first. But it's not always that simple. Many come over as refugees and asylum seekers, because of civil war, disaster, etc. They come over without anything in fear for their lives but they're expected to learn English first? Get a grip! Yes it's advisable they learn English once they arrive but as others have said it's not always easy.

Totally reasonable. School funds can be much better spent. The adults of the family spend the rest of their lives in a society which uses English - and after a year they should gave made the effort to learn. If they haven’t then Google translate IS a translator, just an electronic one. Bravo Head.

Correct move stop pandering to them

Yes it's advisable they learn English once they arrive but as others have said it's not always easy.

But what makes you think it’s the schools responsibility?

Hi, I guess I'm going to have to go ? again at that rosy picture.

We put our native English speaking children through the whole of the French state system (from maternelle right through to tertiary education).

Certainly during their time in the system there was never any offer or entitlement where we lived to the sort services or lessons you described, either for them or us..and yes we did ask and also did our own research and found nothing.

If such really is now a universal entitlement across the whole of France I'd appreciate a link to a suitable source, just to satisfy my curiosity.

My mum emigrated to France and didn’t get free French lessons

She had to pay for them

I may be in the minority here but this feels uncomfortable to me. It doesn’t feel very inclusive. It’s not quite as black and white as ‘if I moved to another country I’d learn the language’ is it? Has anyone from school consulted with parents who don’t speak English and tried to understand the barriers to learning? Surely the school need to understand this better before coming up with a one size fits all solution. Maybe the lessons offered don’t fit with parents work patterns? Maybe they come from a culture where education is viewed differently and parents don’t understand the statutory/enforcement element? Do school understand much about the culture the families come from? Are there any staff who speak different languages. I know the area I live in recruit TAs/pastoral staff who speak other languages that are common in the school. Often they are parents with kids in the school themselves.

Thing is, saying ‘I wouldn’t dream of moving to another country without learning the language’ seems very reductive. You don’t actually know what you’d do if the situation was reversed and you had an opportunity for a better/safer life for your family. Classroom learning doesn’t work for a lot of people. Particularly if it’s not something they’re used or is not culturally relevant to them.

Yes in most cases, after a year, the child can translate

The school’s responsibility to the children involves engaging with the parents so as to communicate about things, whether it’s homework or PE kit, or investigating additional needs, or discipline issues. For obvious reasons, expecting the child to interpret for patents, even if it’s possible, isn’t always practical or appropriate. Not engaging with these parents risks disadvantaging their children.

@inamarina I wondered because BSL users need an interpreter

Are you conflating a disability and the unwillingness to learn the native language of where you chose to reside?

@TomatoSandwiches no I was asking a question . Thinking aloud

Nevermind.

I’m sorry but I agree with the decision.

If you’ve moved to a different country, it’s on you to learn the language.

Yes, it's the children that will suffer. 5 years is no time to assimilate if you are cocooned. Think of all the Brits in Spain who don't speak English. The school are creating a generation of English speakers. I'm sure if it was genuinely down to budget they could come up with a creative solution. Volunteer translators, get the kids in the highest year to translate letters as part of their English assignments. Get a bilingual admin in the office.

My children go to to a totally bilingual school in the UK. All information comes out in English and the home nation language. It's a priority of the school. Time not money on translation. It is possible.

@CapturedLeprechaun This is an operational decision by the Head. It’s not a matter for governors. It’s certainly using money on parents and not Dc. Money coming into the school is for Dc so the head is justified. Most schools get dc to translate.

What about the parents with learning difficulties, dyslexia etc who would find it very difficult to learn the language? Some people have no other choice but to move country

I’m assuming that the school is mixed with different nationalities. So based on for example three languages being needed, that might mean 3 different translators working 2-3 hours each at a parents evening. We are talking HUNDREDS of pounds here. Schools just don’t have that sort of money.

It's not a universal entitlement, provision is targeted to areas with large immigrant communities. Sections internationales are found all over the country: they are designed in part for foreign children in France in the short term, with combined teaching in French and their native language. Eighteen languages are on offer. There are also UPE2A, or unités pédagogiques pour élèves allophones, for children arriving with little or no French (there's a nice documentary about the students in one class here: https://www.allocine.fr/film/fichefilm_gen_cfilm=221636.html[. In our area of high immigration, primary children are also allowed one afternoon off French school a week to follow the UK curriculum at our local section internationale. In areas with high levels of parental illiteracy, schools can offer free French and literacy lessons: here for instance https://lecafedufle.fr/ouvrir-ecole-parents/

The point is that in areas such as that described by the OP, there absolutely is provision made for non-French speakers.