School refusing to provide translator

[CapturedLeprechaun]

I'm on the Governing body for a school with a really high proportion of kids with English as a second language. It's over 80% of their pupils. Many of the parents speak little or no English at all. There are some families who have been here 5+ years where one or both parents speak no English at all still, and even a "your child has no PE kit, they need to wear their PE kit on Mondays and Wednesdays" wouldn't be understood.

The school always use translators for meetings with parents - either a staff member who speaks that language who is available, or else they have a telephone translator service that they pay for, so the phone is on loudspeaker and a translator translates the conversation.

This is done for all parents evenings/ attendance meetings/ SENCO meetings etc for parents who don't speak or understand English.

Important letters like school trips/consent forms are provided translated in the three most common languages spoken.

The school offers English classes to parents, one held in the school one morning a week in the hall, one held in the evening each week.

School has now said translators will only be provided to parents whose children have been at the school for less than a year. If your child has been at the school for more than a year and you are unable to understand English, no translator will be provided, due to staff shortages and costs, and you have to bring a friend/family member who can translate. Letters will only be provided in English, and parents can use the translate feature on google if they need to.

On the face of this, does this seem a reasonable decision? The head has announced this and I don't know why it doesn't sit right with me, and I can't really articulate why. It has a lot of support from the English speaking parents, but it feels... divisive, I guess? And most likely children who will suffer. Currently trying to weigh up whether this is something I should raise, or accept this is a reasonable step for the school to take.

What have the Brits in Spain not speaking Spanish got to do with anything ?? Money isn't being thrown at them to help them learn the language for a start.

Goodness an English school having English speakers whatever next.

In other words bend over backwards.

There are lots of translation apps. Me and my Ukrainian guest uses one and she uses it to get along in our country. She’s learning the language too and her little one is near fluent already.
I think given funding challenges it’s reasonable. Especially given English lessons are given, which is fab.
But really, need some context. Is it reasonable for these particular families?
Eg, some of my past guests have been so traumatised they’re robbed of normal life skills/behaviours.

Translation apps are OK for day to day stuff but (as discussed previously in this thread[ will not be suitable for detailed discussion of things like SEN provision, particularly not in less resourced immigrant languages such as Amharic that are severely under-represented in the large language models such apps are based on.

Ah thank you, that makes much more sense to me now, especially in the context of where we were in France.

There was absolutely zero on offer for our DCs, reason offered for that when we asked was lack of resources (sound familiar?) and lack of demand (being v rural).

Schools don't get given any money to pay for translators. I imagine their budget is stretched beyond belief. Take the issue up with your mp and suggest that schools need more funding or the local council needs to provide English lessons for the families.

Whist this approach may seem harsh, it will hopefully encourage parents to learn some English so they can communicate not only with school but also emergency services should such need ever arise. Inability to speak the local language even at very basic level could be a matter of life and death. As a foreigner living in the UK, I cannot imagine not being able speak English which in comparison to other language is really easy to learn.

Ok discourage them. I actually know older Pakistani and Indian women who’ve been the victims of forced, not arranged marriages, both now divorced and strongly against forced and arranged marriages. One of the women is a counsellor for abused Pakistani and Indian women and men. I also know a slightly younger (40 years old) victim of a marriage who’s now divorced and against it.

Most people I know if eg a young Pakistani man they know (eg work with) that is taken from England to Pakistan it’s usually for an arranged marriage and there are usually semi raised eyebrows if you’re not of that culture. But yes, forced and arranged marriage as well as honour killings and Eve shaming are encouraged in that culture so yes, let’s encourage it in the western world why not?

Doesn't matter - they won't be earning enough to pay tax anyway. Their income is great in our home currency but a pittance in the UK.

The thing is, this problem is SO endemic at the school, across so many nationalities. They cannot all have dyslexia/LD/PTSD whatever.
FWIW I'd be for translators if, for example the area has had an influx of refugees.

But half the languages OP mentioned are spoken by people from poor, but not dangerous countries.. Some like Polish/Romanians are in a better position than British people, they can go anywhere with their EU passport. It's disingenuous to suggest they have 'no choice but to move country'. In fact, we keep hearing on MN about how shit the UK is and how 'Europe' is better.

Perhaps instead of getting into a tussle about who needs it it's better for the head to withdraw ALL support and let the respective bodies deal with it. Refugees for example should be getting refugee support for all aspects of life, nothing to do with the school. Those who just moved here for economic reasons - well if you can't learn then just move back.

Especially as to get a UK visa you need to have a certain level of English competence - so clearly, they should be able to understand.

I don’t think many people realise that the pupil premium funding that the school is getting is because of these children from EAL families esp when you are saying majority of the school is EAL. I would take this to the school governors meeting

Good point.

Sounds like there’s a big problem with the new head

I’m with the head. The letters are not ‘already written’ as every time a letter goes out adjustments will need to be made so producing things in multiple language is a big admin task. School budgets are stretched enough without wasting money on parents who can’t be bothered to learn English. It’s not a disability, they have chosen to come to UK. The school is providing English lessons as do many other organizations, for free. Assuming you aren’t in Wales this is a single language country. The kids will benefit far more from parents who are able to integrate into the society they live in rather than state institutions pandering to multiculturalism and perpetuating barriers.

The school is right. They have given parents who don't speak English the opportunity to learn (which they should anyway, to support their kids here) and are offering alternatives anyway.
Better use of scant resources.

The school isn't washing their hands of it though. They're providing English lessons for parents. They might also be spending it on extra help for the kids, who might find it much harder to learn English if they only speak it at school + nobody to help with homework etc.

It's just translation which they've identified as a drain on resources.

Especially as we have apps and things which are voice activated. You don't even need to be able to read! Google Lens can read something out for you just point it at the page and the camera will automatically pick it up and read it out.

I can see the milk of human kindness is out in strength today…all the clichés are rolling in, ‘economic migrants’, ‘don’t want to fit in’ (hugely ironic coming from English people) ‘should learn our language’ (if all the courses hadn’t been cut).

I agree that it’s almost always to do with diminishing resources, and this sort of thing should be centrally or at least LA funded.

Schools have a budget and whilst they’re wasting it on translators then it’s not going on the children’s educational needs. If the children have been at the school for over a year (therefore in the country for over a year) and the parents still haven’t bothered to learn the language, then what does that say about their contribution to our country?!

I don't think it is unreasonable for parents to learn to speak and read English after being in this country for more than a year.

You're doing the other cliché though - assuming that they're actually in need and not economic migrants , so #bekind.
Especially as in this case OP has given a list of languages and some have more privileged passports than British people post-Brexit.

Not all non-English speakers should be lumped into the same group. If they're refugees then fine they should be helped but why is it the government's responsibility to provide courses for the rest? Which the school is already doing BTW.

Explain how ANY of those things are a primary school's issue to solve though?

I think the parents need to make an effort for their children, get off their backsides and learn English, and be very very grateful the school has supported them for at least the first year of attendance. The school has to pay for the translation services out of its own budget and tbh, I am astounded that over 80% of its pupils are non-English speaking. We are a complete basket case of a country!

@Tessabelle74 Because they have a duty of care to their pupils and parents are entitled to a fair process when it comes to statutory procedures such as EHCP planning and legal action relating to school attendance. At the very least, aside from the ethical perspective, they need to evidence that they have worked with families in an inclusive way throughout any statutory process or they could find themselves in hot water later on if it did come to a prosecution etc.

An ECHP relates to the CHILD not a parent. As long as the CHILD is receiving an education the school has performed it's legal responsibility. Teaching PARENTS is nothing to do with the school.

I think it’s reasonable tbh. A year is plenty of time to be learning English, it shouldn’t be all on the school. How are the kids/parents proposing to be full members of the society if they don’t speak the language? Schools are on their knees financially and this is something that parents need to take responsibility for. A year’s worth of support is extremely generous. 🤷‍♀️