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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

It's a neighbours and driveway dispute one. Who IBU

142 replies

Whatthematter · 26/09/2023 19:28

Name changed as the the diagram required is very outing. No idea if my neighbours post on mumsnet, but if they do, hello!

4 houses all bought at the same time. The dotted yellow area was agreeed on purchase to be shared between the 4 houses. This is marked on land registry and the land is split between the 4. There's the right agreements in place for access to the yellow bit only. Fairly common in these kind of sets ups. It was explained when purchased any changes to this land would have to be agreed by all parties and costs etc. Shared equally. It was also explained that access must be maintained.

The yellow bit is gravel. The gravel wasn't well installed by the builders and as gravel does, it spreads a bit. Its also larger gravel not pea shingle type gravel. So a little more annoying generally.

When they moved in all the houses discussed potentially swapping the gravel to block paving. Nothing was formally agreed, but there was a consensus it may look better. But no one wanted to do anything until the rest of the development was complete. There was also some concerns about cost and finances as several parties explained they didn't have the money to hand.

So now to the Who IBU question.

Houses 2, 3 and 4 are now wanting to get the blocked paving done. They've been getting quotes. However house 1 are saying they no longer want to do the driveway with blocked paving.

The reasons cited are

  1. They had to replace a bathroom in their 3 year old house recently due to a water leak and resulting damaging. Costing they say £8k. The builders would not cover this or any of the resulting damage and the LABC cover would also not cover despite it being due to i stallation error. Houses 2, 3 and 4 have thankfully not had these issues. Although they apparently have some savings using them would mean they were left with very little as a contingency. Which with cost of living and job insecurity they're worried about.

  2. They have now decided they prefer gravel. Their driveway is 'blind' coming out so prefer the gravel as they can hear. They also have a young child so gravel is a good warning of car. Other parts of the development with blocked paving encourage high speeds from residents and delivery drivers, which they're concerned about. They also prefer gravel as it improves security.

  3. The driveway doesn't impact them hugely visually. They have tarmac to the front of their house. They struggle to see the benefit in spending potentially £6-7k on something that offers minimal benefit. They cite if they had that money spare they'd rather spend this on things they've not done in their home that would benefit them more.

  4. They have concerns about maintaince. The parking driveways for houses at the moment is block paved and has constant weeds. No one really maintains their own that well. They have concerns about long term maintaince of it.

They agree the current gravel isn't ideal. As an alterntive to blocked paving they have suggested getting quotes for laying pea shingle and a proper base. Which would cost less. They have also offered to put some gravel of the current kind and rake it out which they believe would improve the look. Houses 2, 3 and 4 are against this as gravel is too dusty and noisy.

So Who is being unreasonable?

YANBU = Houses 2, 3 and 4 are right. It needs block paving and house 1 should suck it up and find the cash.

YABU = House 1 is right. Their reasons are valid and houses 2, 3 and 4 should be more open to the alternatives.

Or other. Let me know.

It's a neighbours and driveway dispute one. Who IBU
OP posts:
2PintsOfCidernaBagofCrisps · 27/09/2023 11:05

Honestly, I'd just consider moving house. You've said that these houses have been hostile towards you for a while and its now a 3 against 1 atmosphere.

You're either going to have a worsening situation if you stick to your position or you are going to pay through the nose for something you don't want.

Life is too short and I would put the house on the market and let someone else take on the headache. If you leave it too long, you may enter into a legal battle, which then needs to be declared to potential buyers, so I'd act quickly.

20cheeseomelette · 27/09/2023 11:25

Would it be possible to sell your stake in the road? So that you still have right of access etc but the other parties can do what they like to the surface and have pay the maintenance.

You’d have to accept the block paving or whatever they want and would have to go to them for maintenance, but you would be free of some of the daily pettiness and get a lump sum. It would remove obligations from future buyers too. I wouldn’t do this for just hundreds though as it’s not without downsides. Maybe 10k? I don’t know. Worth thinking about?

You could insist on a mirror opposite your drive to show oncoming traffic.

And maybe keep your own drive gravel if you could live with their irritation about your gravel on their blocks!

I think I would try to move in an ideal world but would probably just have to stand ground and ignore them.

ZebrasLoveLions · 27/09/2023 11:54

I think House 1 is just coming up with random nonsensical meaningless excuses not to do it 🤷‍♀️

PrrrplePineapple · 27/09/2023 12:01

caerdydd12 · 26/09/2023 19:31

If house 1 can't afford it then they can't afford it, bottom line.

If house 2-4 are willing to share the cost between the 3 of them you might find house 1's no financial reasons don't matter as much to them.

Agree with this. It's a 'nice to have', not a 'must have' and it was in situ when you all moved in. If I was in that position, I'd probably side with neighbour #1 as I'd want to spend the cash on something in my own home rather than a shared access area.

Diamondcurtains · 27/09/2023 12:01

We had similar with an alley behind our houses. It provided access to the backs of houses and people on one side had hardstsndungs for parking. All in all about 25 houses on two different roads shared the access. It was discussed many times over 20 odd years but never done properly as no one could agree who would pay what considering some used it more than others 🤷. If one house don’t want it then the others either suck it up and pay themselves or it doesn’t get done. It’s quite simple. However as there are only 4 of you I’m sure there could be some sort of agreement to keep it tidy and maintained.

Hankunamatata · 27/09/2023 12:04

Tarmac - cheaper and no maintenance

I would not get block paving

Idrankyourbananamilk · 27/09/2023 12:08

ZebrasLoveLions · 27/09/2023 11:54

I think House 1 is just coming up with random nonsensical meaningless excuses not to do it 🤷‍♀️

I don’t think not being able to afford it is a nonsensical or meaningless excuse.

2jacqi · 27/09/2023 12:10

are the council not going to adopt the road in the future???

Ariela · 27/09/2023 12:27

Ohthatsabitshit · 26/09/2023 19:50

I agree with ALL house 1s reasons and would massively prefer gravel. They’ve missed gravel is infinitely better in icy weather and stops people playing football all over the central yellow bit.

....and the fact it is a big burglar deterrent due to the noise.

Ohthatsabitshit · 27/09/2023 12:44

To be honest I wouldn’t want to share any experience let alone a financial one with these people. They just sound like bullies. Tell them “no” and don’t say “maybe” or “later” in any way. If they say you agreed or said you would etc etc, say you’ve said what the position is now.

Whatthematter · 27/09/2023 13:03

20cheeseomelette · 27/09/2023 11:25

Would it be possible to sell your stake in the road? So that you still have right of access etc but the other parties can do what they like to the surface and have pay the maintenance.

You’d have to accept the block paving or whatever they want and would have to go to them for maintenance, but you would be free of some of the daily pettiness and get a lump sum. It would remove obligations from future buyers too. I wouldn’t do this for just hundreds though as it’s not without downsides. Maybe 10k? I don’t know. Worth thinking about?

You could insist on a mirror opposite your drive to show oncoming traffic.

And maybe keep your own drive gravel if you could live with their irritation about your gravel on their blocks!

I think I would try to move in an ideal world but would probably just have to stand ground and ignore them.

This is actually a potential idea. There is one set of neighbours who seem more invested in this idea than the other two. The one who knocked on my door is clearly incredly frustrated at the idea. They're also the ones who from perception would have more cash. Though obviously i don't know their financial ins and outs.

Tell them they can buy it. Job done. Might cost us a little in solictor fees to sort but less than the driveway! Plus long term no issues for us.

OP posts:
Whatthematter · 27/09/2023 13:04

2jacqi · 27/09/2023 12:10

are the council not going to adopt the road in the future???

No. The whole development is not adopted and never will be. Another issue really as everyone has to take their bins to the roadway so we jave 20 bins at the end of the entrance to the development on bin day.

OP posts:
LookItsMeAgain · 27/09/2023 13:10

You'll surely need right-of-way to get access on and off your driveway?

Selling your part of the road is just going to curtail that.

Whatthematter · 27/09/2023 13:11

2PintsOfCidernaBagofCrisps · 27/09/2023 11:05

Honestly, I'd just consider moving house. You've said that these houses have been hostile towards you for a while and its now a 3 against 1 atmosphere.

You're either going to have a worsening situation if you stick to your position or you are going to pay through the nose for something you don't want.

Life is too short and I would put the house on the market and let someone else take on the headache. If you leave it too long, you may enter into a legal battle, which then needs to be declared to potential buyers, so I'd act quickly.

We have considered it. But the cost of moving is significant. We also love the area. The location is perfect. DD settled in a great nursery. Good schools. Commutable if we do have to go office based again. The house is probably now not worth much more than we bought it for and we have had to spend money on it (flooring etc.). Also as we've not really decorated and stuff yet due to having a baby and finances not being great i'm not sure how saleable it is. But it may be worth a valuation and serious consideration. Although it is quite a hostile reception from our neighbours we're kind of just letting it go as their issues aren't ours. We carry in living our lives and don't really have much to do with them.

OP posts:
Whatthematter · 27/09/2023 13:12

LookItsMeAgain · 27/09/2023 13:10

You'll surely need right-of-way to get access on and off your driveway?

Selling your part of the road is just going to curtail that.

We can have right of way and not own any road. We have right of way on other parts of the development and dont own it. Just needs to be drawn up properly.

OP posts:
Alphabet1spaghetti2 · 27/09/2023 13:14

@LookItsMeAgain selling would solve the current issue, a right of access can be added to the deeds across that particular piece of land. Just as terraced houses have right of access across a neighbours property and between houses to take out bins etc.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 27/09/2023 13:29

The gravel was described as looking like a 'farm yard' by them

In that case they were probably unwise to buy when they knew there could be no firm plan for changing it

I lived among a similar arrangement once, and while I wasn't the one refusing to contribute the angst it caused was one of the main reasons I moved
It's perfectly true that nobody can force you to pay, and that if you won't/can't it probably won't get done, but the hassle just goes on and on ... much better IME to own your entire plot and know who to blame if things go wrong

Tessasanderson · 27/09/2023 14:30

Sounds like a rather expensive house if your neighbours have put swimming pools in their gardens.

Be careful if you do go down the route of selling your interest in the road (even if you keep access rights). Im sure it would show up on any future searches if you ever do decide to sell the house and if it was me buying i would want full chapter and verse on why you gave up your rights to the land. It may devalue your property.....

Ohthatsabitshit · 27/09/2023 14:36

Don’t sell your access! You will make your home MUCH less desirable. If you were to all fees etc would be born by the buyer, but I think you’d be unwise to do that and I can’t see your mortgage provider being happy about it.

Nat6999 · 27/09/2023 14:46

House 2, 3 & 4 have their plots paved & leave house 1 as gravel, house 1 gets theirs done when they can afford it.

OlizraWiteomQua · 27/09/2023 15:08

Looking at the picture again, what's really going on is that this is an unadopted private Road. It's not really a driveway - the builders just described it as such to avoid ringing alarm bells but fundamentally it's a small stretch of culdesac road with each of you having off-street parking.

Paving slabs is a terrible idea. What you need is a proper tarmaced surface with good drainage underneath. Probably rather more expensive but will last.

OlizraWiteomQua · 27/09/2023 15:09

Looking at the picture again, what's really going on is that this is an unadopted private Road. It's not really a driveway - the builders just described it as such to avoid ringing alarm bells but fundamentally it's a small stretch of culdesac road with each of you having off-street parking.

Paving slabs is a terrible idea. What you need is a proper tarmaced surface with good drainage underneath. Probably rather more expensive but will last.

Whatthematter · 27/09/2023 15:44

Tessasanderson · 27/09/2023 14:30

Sounds like a rather expensive house if your neighbours have put swimming pools in their gardens.

Be careful if you do go down the route of selling your interest in the road (even if you keep access rights). Im sure it would show up on any future searches if you ever do decide to sell the house and if it was me buying i would want full chapter and verse on why you gave up your rights to the land. It may devalue your property.....

They're not cheap houses. But not crazy expensive either. Neighbours put in a swimming pool for some unknown reason. They obviously have more money than we do!

Good point. I think i'd get advice before proceeding or offering such a thing. Personally if someone told me a house came with no maintaince requirements for a road, but i could use it i'd be happier than current situation. But i do get others may not be so okay with it.

OP posts:
Whatthematter · 27/09/2023 15:47

OlizraWiteomQua · 27/09/2023 15:09

Looking at the picture again, what's really going on is that this is an unadopted private Road. It's not really a driveway - the builders just described it as such to avoid ringing alarm bells but fundamentally it's a small stretch of culdesac road with each of you having off-street parking.

Paving slabs is a terrible idea. What you need is a proper tarmaced surface with good drainage underneath. Probably rather more expensive but will last.

This is exactly what it is. Its actually called 'estate road' in all the legal docs. The neighbours all refer to it as a driveway.

Tarmac although maintaince wise is better i agree, also has major issues with speed from both neighbours and deliveries etc. Since the bit out the front of our house has been tarmaced the speeds some people do are ridiculous!

OP posts:
Whatthematter · 27/09/2023 15:50

Nat6999 · 27/09/2023 14:46

House 2, 3 & 4 have their plots paved & leave house 1 as gravel, house 1 gets theirs done when they can afford it.

Not possible with how the road was split on the deeds it would look ridiculous. That and they all drive on and see the bit we offically own. Pic below shows what house 1 'owns'.

It's a neighbours and driveway dispute one. Who IBU
OP posts: