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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think it is actually mostly men?

1000 replies

Nolpp · 26/09/2023 18:48

Maybe I didn’t get the memo in the past but in the last year or so I’ve been so bitterly disappointed by make behaviour. I look back and wonder if it was always this way but I’m only just noticing. I think part of it is I recently became a single parent and so I’ve had more dealings with men than I would usually, as I’ve had to speak to insurance companies, take car for MOT etc. Obviously I did some of these things before and I know women also work in these places but overall I am having more interaction with men.

Examples…

Driving. Whenever a car is right up behind me it is ALWAYS a man driving. I drive at the speed limit, not under, so presumably they think speed limits don’t apply to them.

I recently donated to a sponsorship for cancer research, an old school friend, quite literally not spoken in over two decades. He then messaged me to thank me for the donation and followed it up with a question about sex and positions he can do after his surgery. Why would anyone think that’s ok?

A colleague, well respected in his industry, tells me when drunk on a night out that he wishes all women conformed to the way of the 50s and stayed at home. He wasn’t joking.

In Sainsbury’s a week ago, a man grabbed my arse in a queue, I was shocked and stepped to one side, didn’t know what to do and said get the fuck away from me. I was next up for the till and the man behind the till said he does it to everyone !!! What the actual fuck? He did follow up to say they had tried to ban him from the shop. I cried in the car afterwards, it was awful.

Waiting for the baby changing unit in Mc Donnalds. A man eventually emerges, mutters sorry but he couldn’t wait, and looked sheepish. He wasn’t unwell, he was downing a Mc flurry when I came out.

Around 7 years ago I used to date someone who had recently got a job as a Judge in the family courts. He was very young to have got this job and in part it was to do with his father being a judge in the same court. Anyway one day we were talking about how money is worked out in a divorce and he said ‘it’s disgusting, women expect to be paid out after staying at home doing nothing with kids for fifteen years, so rather than getting a job of their own they steal the x husband’s pension.’ I am ashamed to say I laughed and agreed with him. I had a good job with no interest in giving it up so I felt I was compatible with this man who I now see was a bit of a monster.

I honestly feel like men make up the bulk of shit behaviour. It probably sounds dramatic but I actually feel sad about it, genuinely sad. And embarrassed that it’s taken me until this late in life to see it.

Yes, I know it’s not all men.

Rant over.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
24
ginasevern · 02/10/2023 18:15

@@Natalya123

Just to add that one in twelve women are killed not by their husbands but by their sons.

Atethehalloweenchocs · 02/10/2023 18:39

Plenty of women do unspeakable things when in power.

Not as many though. That's why we hear about them.

TheaBrandt · 02/10/2023 20:13

Yeah maybe the male apologists go on the AIBU "scariest thing thats ever happened to me" and hang your heads in fucking shame

PaulaZackMayo · 02/10/2023 20:54

TheaBrandt · 02/10/2023 20:13

Yeah maybe the male apologists go on the AIBU "scariest thing thats ever happened to me" and hang your heads in fucking shame

I saw your post about your DH not having any men friends. Do you have any other men/boys in your life?

TheaBrandt · 02/10/2023 20:55

He has loads of men friends! He just has female friends too. I have lots of brilliant men in my life thanks.

TheaBrandt · 02/10/2023 20:57

But I have also narrowly escaped gang rape myself and been perved at for twenty years - like most women..

PaulaZackMayo · 02/10/2023 20:58

TheaBrandt · 02/10/2023 20:55

He has loads of men friends! He just has female friends too. I have lots of brilliant men in my life thanks.

Just wondered why you are calling people males apologists when mostly all of the posters have just said they have decent men in their lives. You seem very angry to people who dont deserve it.

TheaBrandt · 02/10/2023 21:00

What are you on about? Isnt everyone angry about VAWG? Fucking weird not to be.

PaulaZackMayo · 02/10/2023 21:03

What's VAWG? I said you are angry with other posters and calling them male apologists.

PaulaZackMayo · 02/10/2023 21:04

Just type the words instead of the first letters.

PaulaZackMayo · 02/10/2023 21:05

Violence Again Women & Girls

TheaBrandt · 02/10/2023 21:05

Violence Against Women and Girls - its endemic.

PaulaZackMayo · 02/10/2023 21:05

Of course I'm angry about it.

PaulaZackMayo · 02/10/2023 21:06

TheaBrandt · 02/10/2023 21:05

Violence Against Women and Girls - its endemic.

Just looked it up.

PaulaZackMayo · 02/10/2023 21:07

TheaBrandt · 02/10/2023 21:05

Violence Against Women and Girls - its endemic.

You are accusing posters of not caring, of course people care. Who is a being a male apologist on here?

TheaBrandt · 02/10/2023 21:09

Dont really understand what your point is?

PaulaZackMayo · 02/10/2023 21:10

TheaBrandt · 02/10/2023 21:09

Dont really understand what your point is?

I asked who you were calling a male aplogist?

Ramalangadingdong · 02/10/2023 21:13

ElonGates666 · 02/10/2023 12:44

I should have thought it is obvious that gangs are a working-class problem. Middle-class people rarely get involved with gangs. Some people might want to say that there is an ethnic dimension to it too but I don't want to go there.

If you decide that gangs are a problem of poverty then you can do something about it. Better housing, better benefits, better access to good quality jobs and better mental health care will reduce gang related violence.

Many women and teenage girls carry dangerous weapons for men and teenage boys.

What about that awful gang David Cameron and Boris Johnson were involved in? They would smash restaurants to smithereens but got away with it because they were wealthy hooligans who could afford to pay for the damage.

Just because their initiation rites involved fancy dinners and colourful waistcoats doesn’t make them clubs rather than gangs.

Ramalangadingdong · 02/10/2023 21:26

AdamRyan · 02/10/2023 10:52

You haven't posted the links, but in general, studies of "IPV" include at verbal abuse and self reports. Digging deeper usually shows that men usually report IPV when the police are called out to deal with them for violence, or when they are in family court proceedings and may lose access to their children because of their violence.

The undeniable statistics are how many people of each gender are

There are some consistent hallmarks of MRAs/anti-feminists:

  1. assuming women talking about male violence are engaged in "competitive victimhood"
  2. claiming misandry and that people are mam haters
  3. cherry picking obscure statistics that support their arguments

Women don't need to engage in any of this to demonstrate male violence is a huge issue for society.

This! I am so glad you wrote this response.

I keep thinking about the headteacher who was murdered by her husband along with her daughter I a murder-suicide. He had reported her for DV a couple of years prior and, having experienced something similar*, I can imagine the hell of that. It was awful to witness some of the speculation that he had snapped because of her abuse. Oh yeah? And did his tiny daughter also abuse him.

if people learned more about DV they would more clearly see the patterns and we would have better statistics that reflect our lives experiences.

*once when my exh started on me I lashed out and jabbed him back in defence. He then got all hurt and said that I had abused him. It was unbelievable to witness a man who had enacted such violence upon me suddenly
claiming that he was the victim.

Natalya123 · 02/10/2023 21:29

Datanerd · 02/10/2023 17:02

The evidence you posted is eye opening, and fascinating and comprehensive. However it doesn't really surprise me, as it's what I notice anecdotally in my life, amongst stories from friends family and what I've witnessed. Most violence in relationships is two way, and actually men are far less likely in my experience to hit out in a relationship as it's considered completely unacceptable, practically social suicide, whereas it's not unacceptable in reverse.
I recognise there is huge variation across cultures but it fits with my experience.
People will never acknowledge this evidence though as it's not what they want to hear.

The issue is that no matter how compelling the data you post people will find a way to ignore it if it doesn't fit their preconceived ideals. On the other hand, I like to challenge the things I accept as truth and try to remain open minded even if I'm pretty sure I'm right.

We have posters accusing me of 'cherry picking obscure statistics that support their arguments'.

Meanwhile, these 'obscure' statistics include:

  • a thirty-two nation International Dating Violence Study
  • research database covering 1700 peer-reviewed studies, the largest of its kind
  • a Home Office research study
  • a national survey of 2146 families
  • a survey of 11,370 individuals
  • a study of 55,000 military personnel
And the same posters complaining about my obscure studies are referencing a study of a small number of men, all of a similar age, from the same high school in the same country. And to boot these men were offered an incentive (course credits) to take part.

Go figure. Confused

AdamRyan · 02/10/2023 21:52

Natalya123 · 02/10/2023 21:29

The issue is that no matter how compelling the data you post people will find a way to ignore it if it doesn't fit their preconceived ideals. On the other hand, I like to challenge the things I accept as truth and try to remain open minded even if I'm pretty sure I'm right.

We have posters accusing me of 'cherry picking obscure statistics that support their arguments'.

Meanwhile, these 'obscure' statistics include:

  • a thirty-two nation International Dating Violence Study
  • research database covering 1700 peer-reviewed studies, the largest of its kind
  • a Home Office research study
  • a national survey of 2146 families
  • a survey of 11,370 individuals
  • a study of 55,000 military personnel
And the same posters complaining about my obscure studies are referencing a study of a small number of men, all of a similar age, from the same high school in the same country. And to boot these men were offered an incentive (course credits) to take part.

Go figure. Confused

Yet for some reason you don't want to post the links 🤔

AdamRyan · 02/10/2023 22:18

Natalya123 · 02/10/2023 21:29

The issue is that no matter how compelling the data you post people will find a way to ignore it if it doesn't fit their preconceived ideals. On the other hand, I like to challenge the things I accept as truth and try to remain open minded even if I'm pretty sure I'm right.

We have posters accusing me of 'cherry picking obscure statistics that support their arguments'.

Meanwhile, these 'obscure' statistics include:

  • a thirty-two nation International Dating Violence Study
  • research database covering 1700 peer-reviewed studies, the largest of its kind
  • a Home Office research study
  • a national survey of 2146 families
  • a survey of 11,370 individuals
  • a study of 55,000 military personnel
And the same posters complaining about my obscure studies are referencing a study of a small number of men, all of a similar age, from the same high school in the same country. And to boot these men were offered an incentive (course credits) to take part.

Go figure. Confused

While I'm waiting I just googled the first thing (International Dating Violence Study) and found the following:
Questions regarding verbal abuse were also included, such as name-calling, accusations, and threats. Other communication related questions were also included, such as compromising to reach a solution and respecting the other's opinion

Name calling, accusations and threats is not the same as physically assaulting your partner. Bidirectional name calling is not violence.

And this is the problem with "intimate partner violence" and MRA posters.

You have a lot of misquoted stats at your fingers; "cherry picking" means twisting facts and figures to support your narrative.

PaulaZackMayo · 02/10/2023 22:21

TheaBrandt · 02/10/2023 20:13

Yeah maybe the male apologists go on the AIBU "scariest thing thats ever happened to me" and hang your heads in fucking shame

It's been taken down.

I'm sorry you had a horrible experience. My first boyfriend was abusive.

However, calling people men apologists because they've had many positive experiences with men is not helping.

AdamRyan · 02/10/2023 22:25

Oh look, Strauss and Gelles (1979!!) Used the conflict tactics scale to measure, which is controversial and flawed.

Summary of the scale:

  • Negotiation: "I showed I cared about my partner even though we disagreed" (emotional); "Suggested a compromise to a disagreement" (cognitive).
  • Psychological Aggression: "Shouted or yelled at my partner" (minor); "Threatened to hit or throw something at my partner" (severe).
  • Physical Assault: "Slapped my partner" (minor); "Kicked my partner" (severe)
  • Sexual Coercion: "Insisted on sex when my partner did not want to (but did not use physical force)" (minor); "Used force (like hitting, holding down, or using a weapon) to make my partner have sex" (severe)
  • Injury: "Had a sprain, bruise, or small cut because of a fight with my partner" (minor); "Needed to see a doctor because of a fight with my partner, but I didn't" (severe).[

Again, contains "violence" that is in fact not violent

Natalya123 · 02/10/2023 22:41

AdamRyan · 02/10/2023 21:52

Yet for some reason you don't want to post the links 🤔

Knock yourself out. All the above studies can be found here.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_violence_against_men

Domestic violence against men - Wikipedia

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_violence_against_men

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