People facing a fear of discrimination should not be able to claim refugee status apparently.

[cakeorwine]

Women fleeing countries where they could be stoned to death, treated as second class citizens. For example, women from Afghanistan.

LGBT people who live in countries where you can be arrested and face the death penalty for being LGBT.

I'm surprised that this Government allow Ukrainian refugees in. Their country has only been invaded but I guess that's their tough luck

"Speaking at the American Enterprise Institute in Washington DC, Ms Braverman is expected to say: “I think most members of the public would recognise those fleeing a real risk of death, torture, oppression or violence, as in need of protection.
“However, as case law has developed, what we have seen in practice is an interpretive shift away from ‘persecution’, in favour of something more akin to a definition of ‘discrimination’.
“And a similar shift away from a ‘well-founded fear’ toward a ‘credible’ or ‘plausible fear’.
“The practical consequence of which has been to expand the number of those who may qualify for asylum, and to lower the threshold for doing so.

“Let me be clear, there are vast swathes of the world where it is extremely difficult to be gay, or to be a woman.

“Where individuals are being persecuted, it is right that we offer sanctuary.
“But we will not be able to sustain an asylum system if in effect, simply being gay, or a woman, and fearful of discrimination in your country of origin, is sufficient to qualify for protection.”

So you have to wait until you actually get persecuted, till you get arrested, tortured etc before you can flee a country.

Oh - and apparently she has an issue with coming through safe countries?

Does she know how many refugees actually come to the UK compared to the rest of the world?

We take very few.

https://www.unrefugees.org/refugee-facts/statistics

Turkey has 3 million
Germany has 2 million
1 in 5 refugees are Syrians fleeing the war there.

People are discriminated against in this country. There's a difference between discrimination and constant fear of violence, death, losing your job. There are different levels. There does need to be a sensible view and saying that doesn't mean you want to stop all asylum seekers.

You don't understand how the law works. Read Braverman's quote again until you understand it.

The level.of racism.on here is quite disturbing.

That’s funny.
What is the process by which a judge makes a law, please?
Also - read my post again until you understand it. I was commenting on your ignorant assertions about judges, not on what Braverman might have said (she’s a proven liar anyway, so I’m not interested as it’s probably bollocks).

They wouldn't be required to take 'everybody'. Only those from immediately neighbourimg countries. People believe that's the law already because that's what the law would be if the majority had any say in those laws. That's why they don't.

Fladdermus · Today 13:36

MrsSkylerWhite · Today 13:30

Also, who invented this first safe country thing? Just not true.
It's an internal EU rule because of the schengen area having no internal borders. International law allows people to seek asylum in ANY safe country.”

Indeed, ANY safe country. Yet still, politicians who know better deliberately parrot the first safe country rubbish. Why are they allowed to get away with it by interviewers and presenters who also know better? We raise written objections every time we see it. Hardly ever more than an automated acknowledgement.

What would your approach be?

When not numbers keep going up how would you deal with it successfully

@Pollyputhekettleon refugees come from a relatively small number of countries. And it’s also clear that the comment you are replying to means ‘everyone from the neighbouring country which is dangerous’. Are you being deliberately obtuse or do you really not get it?

I'm not going to explain law to you. Why on earth would anyone do that?! You can't even be bothered to read the bit where Braverman is discussing how caselaw works! It's a lot easier just to say it's probably bollocks isn't it.

NHS waiting lists are now almost double those in 2019. That’s nationally and the figures don’t depend on where you live.

If we welcome those to this country who do not tolerate homosexuality where does that leave those fleeing discrimination in those same countries.

If anyone facing discrimination was automatically a refugee it would mean citizens of places like Switzerland, France and Spain could claim asylum.

In all three countries rape is only rape if there is violence and you fight back, even when it is several men, it is filmed and put online.

Women only got universal suffrage in Switzerland in 1990.

Several US states allow child marriage and a number have all but abolished abortion.

There are shades of grey, a woman / girl from Afghanistan is absolutely more oppressed than one in France and some discrimination is necessary for society, we don't allow blind people to drive, if we were to legalise self driving cars and issue licences to people who are blind does that give a blind person from another country a right to asylum?

I meant everybody from a neighbouring country. Why should country A take every refugee from country B simply because it is next door? My point stands.

Case law most certainly isn't bollox but case law, like pretty much any law can be changed, the Cons have a significant majority and almost all Tory MPs would vote for tougher immigration laws..

Its good to see you ve rolled back from "easy to stop migration" to "it wouldn't be easy..."

& no Europe is not a client state of the USA, (though UK may well be) look at the European countries that refused to help out in the Iraq war, France in particular, which even left the command structures of NATO

As for the often repeated "when numbers increase ...." so what? unless Europe is prepared to use force, numbers will grow (agree) but it will happen, i'm sure of this, its unsustainable and political pressure will mount.

The migrants sent to Nauru endured terrible treatment yet Australians and the world turned a blind eye.

I think EU countries have the right to return asylum seekers to the first safe EU country under the Dublin agreement. At least, I've seen the UK's loss of that right being given as a reason for the rise in asylum seekers since 2019.

I'd be interested to see a Venn diagram of those who voted for Brexit and those who want to stop people seeking asylum here via small boat crossings.

My MIL definitely falls in both categories.

I think EU countries have the right to return asylum seekers to the first safe EU country under the Dublin agreement. At least, I've seen the UK's loss of that right being given as a reason for the rise in asylum seekers since 2019.

No we were net takers under that agreement. This line of argument is a myth

People might suggest it as the reason but they’ve got it wrong

The reason is the same as the huge jump across the Med. People movement is increasing generally due to world events

Yes the loss of the Dublin Convention removed all disincentives for a migrant not to come to the UK... they feared being returned, its the only thing that has changed since 2020 and the rapid increase in small boat crossings.

Migrants didn't cross the Med in such numbers before the UK and others decided to turn Libya into a failed state.

There has been huge migrant flows into Europe for many years, yet it is only since we left the EU in 2020 that channel crossings became a thing, remarkable coincidence... perhaps France policed its borders better to a fellow EU country then?

@LakieLady

This has increased as two years old but see here. The Dublin Convention had very small numbers and was not created as a disincentive

• At the end of 2021, 89.3 million people worldwide had been forced to flee their homes, double that of a decade ago.
• The number of displaced people has now reached 100 million.
• A think-tank predicts more than one billion people are at risk of being displaced by 2050 due to environmental change, conflict and civil unrest.

This is incorrect. Certain immigrants from the EU (original founding EU countries such as Germany, the Netherlands, France etc before the accession A10 states joined in 2004) have been net positive. The accession states have either been neutral or net negative and non-EU immigrants have been net negative. This is just fiscal though and doesn't take into account things like cultural and social impacts of immigration.

Take them all in OP. I can't understand why you don't. Any excuse will make you sound even more homophobic, racist or fascist than you already are since the day you were born and internalised the hate.

If you're not as brave as Lily Allen, maybe start small - there's a homeless cat colony in my neighbours abandoned garden. The winter is coming. Apart from getting fed by a different neighbour, they have no life to speak of. Take them in. All 19 of them. I literally don't understand why you wouldn't. I suppose not all people like animals... Boo you.

The number of displaced people has now reached 100 million

Only a small fraction of those 100m come to the UK

70 per cent of refugees and other people in need of international protection lived in countries neighbouring their countries of origin.

Türkiye hosts the largest number of refugees, with 3.6 million people, followed by the Islamic Republic of Iran with 3.4 million people. Colombia is third with 2.5 million, including other people in need of international protection.

Türkiye 3.6 million
Islamic Republic of Iran 3.4 million
Colombia 2.5 million
Germany 2.1 million
Pakistan 1.7 million

https://www.unhcr.org/refugee-statistics/#:~:text=T%C3%BCrkiye%20hosts%20the%20largest%20number,in%20need%20of%20international%20protection.

And even if we take the ridiculous number of 780 million as Braverman has stated in the Telegraph, at the rate of 40k in small boats a year that 780 million will all be here in only...19,500 years

Incorrect. Each trust/health board has its own statistics. Also was there perhaps something else that happened around 2020ish that may have affected waiting lists....?

40k per year isn’t a fixed number though

In the same way Lampedusa is not seeing a static rate

7000 in 24 hours has happened but that doesn’t mean it’s the limit

Also to be considered is direction of movement which will change due to climate pressures