People facing a fear of discrimination should not be able to claim refugee status apparently.

[cakeorwine]

Women fleeing countries where they could be stoned to death, treated as second class citizens. For example, women from Afghanistan.

LGBT people who live in countries where you can be arrested and face the death penalty for being LGBT.

I'm surprised that this Government allow Ukrainian refugees in. Their country has only been invaded but I guess that's their tough luck

"Speaking at the American Enterprise Institute in Washington DC, Ms Braverman is expected to say: “I think most members of the public would recognise those fleeing a real risk of death, torture, oppression or violence, as in need of protection.
“However, as case law has developed, what we have seen in practice is an interpretive shift away from ‘persecution’, in favour of something more akin to a definition of ‘discrimination’.
“And a similar shift away from a ‘well-founded fear’ toward a ‘credible’ or ‘plausible fear’.
“The practical consequence of which has been to expand the number of those who may qualify for asylum, and to lower the threshold for doing so.

“Let me be clear, there are vast swathes of the world where it is extremely difficult to be gay, or to be a woman.

“Where individuals are being persecuted, it is right that we offer sanctuary.
“But we will not be able to sustain an asylum system if in effect, simply being gay, or a woman, and fearful of discrimination in your country of origin, is sufficient to qualify for protection.”

So you have to wait until you actually get persecuted, till you get arrested, tortured etc before you can flee a country.

Oh - and apparently she has an issue with coming through safe countries?

Does she know how many refugees actually come to the UK compared to the rest of the world?

We take very few.

https://www.unrefugees.org/refugee-facts/statistics

Turkey has 3 million
Germany has 2 million
1 in 5 refugees are Syrians fleeing the war there.

I’m discriminated against as an old white woman - I insist on moving to Sweden for a fairer life

So are you saying that someone who is LGBT in a country where you can be executed for being gay should not be able to claim asylum elsewhere?

Or would you wait until they have been executed?

Do you think there should be a ceiling on the numbers and what should the ceiling be?
There are 20 million women in Afghanistan for instance and it is just one country where women are disproportionately discriminated against.
What limit would you set or do you favour open borders.
The asylum system is costing 8 million a day at the moment to run, how much money should we spend on asylum seekers do you think is the ceiling while being fair to UK citizens.

Yes but quite often other countries are paying them to do so.

The OP brings up Turkey taking in 3 million - they're not doing it out of the goodness of their little hearts, they're doing it because the EU agreed to pay them 6 billion to do it.

And Merkel faced a huge backlash against Germany's policies on refugees.

Do you think the UK is responsible for setting the morality policies of all these countries?

No one ever answers these questions @molotovcupcakes they just waffle -no one answers them.
come on OP let’s have a few figures.

Oh look, the "so you're saying..." brigade are out early today. 😂

We did create the situation in Libya by removing Ghaddafi and putting nothing in its place, we also allowed the Taliban back in.

We destroyed Iraq...

We did nothing over Syria, despite our "red lines" allowing the Russians to control the place and they are using refugees for their own aims.

The UK is slashing foreign aid, even more so as we take that budget and use it to house refugees in the UK.

Unless we use military force to turn back refugees, then the only way forward is to improve the economic situation back in their home countries.

Yes, extreme right wing parties are getting stronger in Germany

You do know that Pakistan and Iran host most Afghan refugees

At the end of 2022, Afghan refugees were hosted in 103 countries. Over
9 in 10 were in the neighbouring Islamic Republic of Iran (3.4 million) and Pakistan (1.7 million). A further 180,000 Afghan refugees resided in Germany.

Global Trends | UNHCR UK

Just playing devils advocate - at what threshold should we take in refugees then? How many per year? I think we could do better but I'm not sure taking in women and gay people en masse is the solution- we need to work with the un and international partners to make their homelands safer. Meanwhile we should have a better route for temporary work permits for those wishing to work both here and in mainland Europe in areas of the economy with vacancies that must ge applied for outside of the eu then they ca. take safe onward transport

Technically, the rules of asylum are that you should stop in the first safe country

That’s a Tory myth. They’ve certainly succeeded with that bit of lying indoctrination.

The reality is that most people flee countries because of conflict.

And this announcement will do fuck all to stop that

Unless she thinks that people fleeing conflict shouldn't be allowed to claim refugee status.

"Activist judges"? Really?

Judges don't make the law, they process it. Politicians make the law. If a government is too incompetent to formulate laws at the detail level and only capable of soundbites then it shouldn't be in power. Point your ire at the government who have been in power and able to change and formulate law for the last 13 years.

Judges and former judges in the lords frequently warn about this but are ignored by the blowhards whose expertise is largely in soundbite politics rather than delivery.

It’s a masterclass in distraction.

The bottom line is this issue will never be resolved because there is no answer which pleases everyone, instead it stirs division and resentment whilst keeping many voters distracted with the wrong issue. Keep the boats away whilst our living standards continue to free fall.

Those who vote because they overwhelmingly share SBs viewpoints on immigration are essentially voting for further breakdown of the NHS, more cuts to education, weak investment in infrastructure and the lining of Tory donor pockets- just as long as we keep those damn boats out and any persecuted woman or gay.

It's not in the interests of any mainstream political party in Europe to have an electorate that actually understands what their betters have been doing to asylum laws over the last few decades. Because all of them know perfectly well that the right to asylum was never intended to be a right to asylum in the country of your choice. No one was ever asked to consent to grant such a right, and they're still not being asked.

It’s beyond me why we don’t just allow asylum seekers to work. Actually, it’s not beyond me at all, if we let them work we wouldn’t have people whining about living at taxpayers’ expense.

Ninety two percent of people arriving in small boat from 2018 to March 2023 claimed asylum; of the small share who had received a decision by March 2023, 86% received a grant of protection.

We don't take compassionless whingers.

Nobody is stopping you to do so, good luck with claiming asylum.

At least they seem to process the claims quickly and you won't be sent to a barge

We take in women and children from Ukraine, the men have to stay and fight, 99% of people coming in small boats are fighting age men who have left their women and children behind.

We don't have the space to take as many people as such places as Germany, France etc so every country should take a quota according to the size of the country but most of these men don't want to go to these countries, they want to come here.

Out of our quota would you prefer to take a woman from Afghanistan who is in danger of being stoned to death or a fit young man who could be discriminated against for being gay? We can't take them all so someone would have to choose.

"There were 415 asylum applications lodged in the UK in 2021, where sexual orientation formed part of the basis for the claim (LGB asylum applications), representing 1% of all asylum applications."
GOV.UK

Clearly its a huge issue and not at all manufactured to present as an argument to withdraw from ECHR.

the Ukrainian people are on a visa not refugees

discrimination is not the same as persecution and fear for life

Spare me the fake outrage.

'However, as case law has developed, what we have seen in practice is an interpretive shift away from ‘persecution’, in favour of something more akin to a definition of ‘discrimination’.
“And a similar shift away from a ‘well-founded fear’ toward a ‘credible’ or ‘plausible fear’.'

This is true.

My ire is pointed in many different directions, because a lot of institutions and factors resulted in the current situation, which is obviously not limited to Britain and your tedious parochial Labour/Tory partisan politics.