People facing a fear of discrimination should not be able to claim refugee status apparently.

[cakeorwine]

Women fleeing countries where they could be stoned to death, treated as second class citizens. For example, women from Afghanistan.

LGBT people who live in countries where you can be arrested and face the death penalty for being LGBT.

I'm surprised that this Government allow Ukrainian refugees in. Their country has only been invaded but I guess that's their tough luck

"Speaking at the American Enterprise Institute in Washington DC, Ms Braverman is expected to say: “I think most members of the public would recognise those fleeing a real risk of death, torture, oppression or violence, as in need of protection.
“However, as case law has developed, what we have seen in practice is an interpretive shift away from ‘persecution’, in favour of something more akin to a definition of ‘discrimination’.
“And a similar shift away from a ‘well-founded fear’ toward a ‘credible’ or ‘plausible fear’.
“The practical consequence of which has been to expand the number of those who may qualify for asylum, and to lower the threshold for doing so.

“Let me be clear, there are vast swathes of the world where it is extremely difficult to be gay, or to be a woman.

“Where individuals are being persecuted, it is right that we offer sanctuary.
“But we will not be able to sustain an asylum system if in effect, simply being gay, or a woman, and fearful of discrimination in your country of origin, is sufficient to qualify for protection.”

So you have to wait until you actually get persecuted, till you get arrested, tortured etc before you can flee a country.

Oh - and apparently she has an issue with coming through safe countries?

Does she know how many refugees actually come to the UK compared to the rest of the world?

We take very few.

https://www.unrefugees.org/refugee-facts/statistics

Turkey has 3 million
Germany has 2 million
1 in 5 refugees are Syrians fleeing the war there.

Lots of comments on this thread.

We are lucky to live in a country where we have good human rights. Where women have human rights. Where LGBT people don't face the death penalty for being gay. Where we don't have war forcing people to flee.

I wonder what people would say to people who happen to live in a country where persecution happens? Where torture, imprisonment and execution is rife. Where war has forced people to flee.

Of course there is a limit to what we can do. We are just one country. We are lucky to live in the rich West with a good lifestyle. You can see why people want to come here.

Who should we give asylum to? And who should we refuse it to?

If someone is LGBT and lives in a country where LGBT people can be jailed or executed for their sexuality, at what point do we say "We can see you life in a place where you fear for your life, you can come here". Even though I am not sure how they can even apply for asylum in this country if they live in such a country.

How does someone in Uganda claim asylum legally in the UK?

I get the list, especially the last three but this surprises me

i) Passage via “safe" third country

Most will be arriving via Italy? I did wonder how France could say no to those arriving on that route

Maybe that explains why. Also not sure why France can do this but others don’t

Other EU countries are much more unwilling to accept refugees who arrive in Greece/Italy/Malta than France and others. This is why the EU pays Turkey a massive amount not pass on refugees to Greece/Bulgaria and is threatening to punish Poland/Czechia/Hungary for not taking their share.

It's not just some African men who support FGM.

How do we know someone is LGBT -anyone can claim to be

Not sure of the point you are making?

Not sure why you are not sure, it is pretty clear.

Not to me. Do you mean;
Not some African men - all African men,
Not some African men - some African women too
Not some African men - some/all men/women from other areas too

im not trying to be arsey, I genuinely don’t know what you mean.

StarbucksSmarterSister · Yesterday 19:43

I don't think being gay and living in a country where there's a death sentence for homosexuality can be considered grounds for an asylum claim. It's reasonable to need some evidence of actual persecution

(My italics above.)
**
You don't think somebody's sexuality being cause for the death penalty is "evidence of actual persecution"?
😲”

This. What a mind-blowing statement. I can’t rationalise it in any way or form. There is a long list of countries where homosexuality is on the statute books as illegal. In some, it’s punishable by execution, in a few by stoning.

Is that not evidence enough for pity’s sake?

@Redbrickrebel

Cos you're so full of tolerance aren't you . 🤪

The last two of your list.

A very complex question which brings into play a whole host of factors.
I often hear 'why didn't you/your family just leave?' asked to those who faced persecution or worse, and I cannot encompass why someone would ask such a question, other than if they are trying to illustrate what a ridiculous question it is. The same might apply here, and people's ability to 'just leave' is influenced by a whole host of things - knowledge versus propaganda, income, contacts abroad, health, hope or lack of and so on. I appreciate you are not suggesting it's easy to 'just leave' but more that would should extend compassion to those who do?

I actually just meant exactly what I wrote - it isn’t just young African Men - I wasn’t claiming anything beyond that, just pointing it out.

Plenty of African Women support FGM as well … they are the ones doing the butchering most of the time.

my view … we have a Labour shortage, we are never going to grow the economy without more people. I think we need better routes in (even for “unskilled” worker”, that Asylum seekers should be able to work, and, we should be processing claims quicker.

plus … I would sooner let 9 “fakers” in, to save the life of 1 “genuine” person.

The ones working illegally? I don't think the hordes of Uber drivers are contributing.

The asylum system is costing 8 million a day at the moment to run, how much money should we spend on asylum seekers do you think is the ceiling while being fair to UK citizens.

It amazes me that there are a large number of people out there that think there's a pot of money that just magically refills on a daily basis, everyone has a budget, whether individuals, local authorities or the government, some higher than others but a budget no less and while parts of the budget get spent on keeping asylum seekers there will be those that are shouting that there's no funds for other services which are forever being cut.

Sometimes difficult decisions need to be made but pople do need to realise we can't continue as is from either a population or monetary side of things.

I can’t see that ,with the amazing development in AI (perhaps won’t need so many teachers, certainly admin, call centres) why will we need all these workers -ok fruit pickers, care workers -low paid unpopular jobs, the first generation of immigrants might do these jobs but their university educated children ,presuming they are now British, certainly won’t want to. But will still need health care, schooling, houses.

@2023forme many of them fleeing for religious persecution are from religious faiths that aren't trying to cause harm to anyone though . Those in the Christian faith usually. They don't have much power.

How? We can't begin to solve the world's problems alone. If we did follow this crazy idea what would happen then to their male children when they're of age? Send them back to Afghanistan?

We do need highly skilled workers e.g. Doctors, nurses, teachers etc. Immigration has mostly a positive effect. However we can't afford to take in everybody. If only we could.

I do wonder though why some people groups who are actually experiencing persecution in their countries are considered to have migrant status and not refugee status? The Roma in Bulgaria or Romania for example face severe racial oppression and poverty because of said oppression. I've often wondered why they aren't considered refugees ?

They have a population of 40m, pp wants half here

They’d better have some spare rooms to offer up their sleeve

Sorry, but saying you would rather let 9 fakers in to save 1 is ridiculous. Do you really not understand where that would lead? The answer is that the 9 would become 90, we would be bankrupt [ if we aren't already], we would have nowhere to house anyone, we would be overcrowded , without enough resources. At that point, goodness knows what would happen. I can imagine it wouldn't be pretty.
I really think some people posting here have no idea.

What we might see is an even bigger migration of skilled British to countries like USA,Australia because they have a more controlled immigration system (maybe not so much US) and space!

I was referring to for the example different branches of Islam who still hold hatred for each other wherever they go. And there are Christian groups who similarly are in conflict with other religions;
”Predominantly Christian forces known as the anti-balaka (anti-machete) militia retaliated by slaughtering thousands of Muslims and forcing hundreds of thousands more from their homes.”

I guess it does happen not sure if the majority of refugees would be in that position though . But yes a small minority.