People facing a fear of discrimination should not be able to claim refugee status apparently.

[cakeorwine]

Women fleeing countries where they could be stoned to death, treated as second class citizens. For example, women from Afghanistan.

LGBT people who live in countries where you can be arrested and face the death penalty for being LGBT.

I'm surprised that this Government allow Ukrainian refugees in. Their country has only been invaded but I guess that's their tough luck

"Speaking at the American Enterprise Institute in Washington DC, Ms Braverman is expected to say: “I think most members of the public would recognise those fleeing a real risk of death, torture, oppression or violence, as in need of protection.
“However, as case law has developed, what we have seen in practice is an interpretive shift away from ‘persecution’, in favour of something more akin to a definition of ‘discrimination’.
“And a similar shift away from a ‘well-founded fear’ toward a ‘credible’ or ‘plausible fear’.
“The practical consequence of which has been to expand the number of those who may qualify for asylum, and to lower the threshold for doing so.

“Let me be clear, there are vast swathes of the world where it is extremely difficult to be gay, or to be a woman.

“Where individuals are being persecuted, it is right that we offer sanctuary.
“But we will not be able to sustain an asylum system if in effect, simply being gay, or a woman, and fearful of discrimination in your country of origin, is sufficient to qualify for protection.”

So you have to wait until you actually get persecuted, till you get arrested, tortured etc before you can flee a country.

Oh - and apparently she has an issue with coming through safe countries?

Does she know how many refugees actually come to the UK compared to the rest of the world?

We take very few.

https://www.unrefugees.org/refugee-facts/statistics

Turkey has 3 million
Germany has 2 million
1 in 5 refugees are Syrians fleeing the war there.

I don’t need or want to know. I just want my teeth fixed.

Most people can follow a conversation, if they want to. I'm delighted that you're being open and honest about the non-necessity of dentists in England speaking English. Presumably you'd extend that to the entire medical profession, since people also go abroad for all kinds of medical treatment.

You presume wrong - as usual.

You're free at any time to go to China, or Greece, or Somalia, and find a dentist who speaks only their native language, and get your teeth fixed. Your unfortunate fellow citizens are not required to shape their immigration laws around your rather quirky attitude to dentistry.

This just gets funnier and funnier. And slightly offensive to the dentistry profession! I engaged with you on a previous thread, I won't be wasting my time doing it on this one.

I really hope you mean that.

Interesting to see the vote on this, majority is yabu

I wouldn’t leave behind my mother, my sister, my daughter if I was fleeing anything, or anywhere though!

It’s going to increase and will be hard to work with structures set up a fair while ago

It won’t just be here but EU is finding the same

Why do we?

Oh I wonder why none of the African, Asian or Middle Eastern countries have taken in Ukrainian refugees. Must be because they hate white people.

Or realistically, most people are going to go to flee to the countries which are a) nearby (such as Poland in the case of Ukrainian refugees) and b) has the most similar/compatible culture.

And surely any brown people attempting to flee to Europe/the west should be discouraged from coming to nasty, racist Europe where they are apparently not welcomed and unsafe and should be encouraged to stay in nearby countries which are bastions of womens rights, LGBT rights, religious plurality and functioning economies? It's a mystery why so many of them come to Europe when we apparently treat them so badly.

'the study of 80 countries over three decades found Western countries were most accepting of other cultures with Britain, the U.S., Canada and Australia more tolerant than anywhere else.'

India among world's most racist countries, says survey - India Today

Where are we going to get the money and resources to take in so many extra people, OP?

Suspect the answer is that way because in the US, UK, Canada etc to dare say you don't want people of another culture as neighbours you get lambasted if not prosecuted. Doesn't stop the truth though.

Its a bit like when people are suprised by the size of the Tory vote - its because most Tories just stay quiet and won't answer in person if they are asked because of the shit they get from the left.

Maybe if we could actually have an open debate without the fear of reprisals from the left wing liberal hand wringers, we could move the argument on.

By taxing the middle classes even more and stealing more of their savings/property.

I dispute that we take few immigrants in total. We have a few in politics in Westminster, London, Scotland.
At what point do we say "be like the Ukraine", stand up to the dictators and fight for your homeland and your human rights. We cannot impose democracy on your country. You have to grow it and develop it.

We could always allow them to work.

Who qualifies as a refugee isn't as simple as many people would like. It's defined by law and it does not just mean, anyone who lives in a society where we think the values system is wrong.

Even as it stands now, the refugee system was workable when it was set up probably isn't any more. The numbers are going to be overwhelming even where they aren't already.

Refugee resettlement is not easy, it's expensive but in many cases to work well it requires a lot of people to help in a very focused way. Communities can only support so much of it sucessfully.

Yes no doubt that's part of it. I think people are becoming harder and harder to manipulate each year though. Maybe that's just because day by day the consequences are hitting more people personally.

I agree with this

Now would be a good time to Google the phrase 'Dog whistle politics'. Don't fall for it people. Headlines like this are usually engineered to keep us all busy while they slip other things under our noses that they know would cause even greater outrage. Remember how they all had us turning on eachother during the pandemic while they slipped new laws under the radar to remove certain rights to demonstrate?

Look over there! Look over there! Don't look over here! Look over there!

If I remember right legally a person has to have a fear of persecution not discrimination to succeed in an asylum claim. So Suella does not understand the law which is a worry as despite being previously the attorney general she frequently struggles with it. It stated it quite clearly in the Geneva Convention. There is a difference and lots of case precedence on it.

Are you saying these statements are incorrect?

'However, as case law has developed, what we have seen in practice is an interpretive shift away from ‘persecution’, in favour of something more akin to a definition of ‘discrimination’.

“And a similar shift away from a ‘well-founded fear’ toward a ‘credible’ or ‘plausible fear’.'

She didn't write that herself, you know, so I'm not sure why it's being personalized. And she's not talking about the Geneva Convention.

What she is saying is that there has been a move to interpret that law more broadly., and she's suggesting that's a problem.

I don't know if that is true, but it's certainly what many people on threads like this would like. Their view seems to be that anyone leaving a society they think is unfair, discriminatory, or where people are suffering from a poorly developed economy, should be allowed to claim asylum in the UK (and presumably elsewhere, Japan maybe?)

I’d say it’s going to get harder to divert from the increased movement of people as mass displacement ramps up due to climate pressures

The older systems won’t be able to deal with it and citizens will notice. Even if people say don’t talk about it, it’ll get harder to make that demand

Governments are already showing change - look at France and Germany recently