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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that home education should mean one parent has no requirement to work under UC?

210 replies

Homeeducationproblems · 25/09/2023 08:11

I home educate but I’m in receipt of carers allowance so I don’t have to worry but many of the parents in the groups we attend have children with difficulties who couldn’t manage school and because they don’t get dla or are waiting for a dla claim (it takes months) they are under extreme pressure.

I know that some people plan to home educate and yes if its a choice for NT dc from age 4 then I can see why they’d be expected to fund that/work alongside but there’s a huge groups of parents struggling to home educate children with difficulties and it seems as if they aren’t recognised and supported ?

AIBU to think that if you’ve had to de register for a child who can’t manage school and you are engaging with your LA home education department (a lot of home educators refuse to engage so there should be something in place where UC have it verified ?) that you should be able to get UC with no requirement to work?

OP posts:
PuttingDownRoots · 25/09/2023 08:16

If the child is unable to attend school (although I appreciate that this could be hard to define)... I think you have a point.

A parent chosing it just because they want to (which is their free choice)... not really. Not everyone uses home education for the right reasons (I.e in the best interests of their child)

Original poster
Homeeducationproblems · 25/09/2023 08:18

PuttingDownRoots · 25/09/2023 08:16

If the child is unable to attend school (although I appreciate that this could be hard to define)... I think you have a point.

A parent chosing it just because they want to (which is their free choice)... not really. Not everyone uses home education for the right reasons (I.e in the best interests of their child)

Yes this is what I mean as I assume if you plan to home educate you’d have savings etc in place and work out working around that but some parents suddenly have a child breakdown and refuse school and they end up de registering and waiting for assessment and dla but have so much pressure from UC - And until they have a diagnosis / dla (which some can’t get !) they are struggling with a child even secondary age that they can’t leave alone at all or get any childcare for but it seems to be a forgotten area

OP posts:
MojoMoon · 25/09/2023 08:20

Ideally if your child has enough difficulties that they cannot be in school and the LEA doesn't have suitable special education provision, then parents should get carers allowance or other similar payment which would then facilitate home education. In an ideal world this would be very rare as special education would be suitably funded.

I don't think the religious wingnuts who don't want their children mingling with heathens should get payments from the state to facilitate this to home educate. Or those who take their kids out of school to avoid safeguarding concern investigations.

vivainsomnia · 25/09/2023 08:21

How would you regulate this? As we know, the LA already don't gave the resources to ensure all home educated children actually are, let alone expecting a system that can separate the genuine ones from those who use it.

underneaththeash · 25/09/2023 08:21

Do you not think some "work shy" people, unsuitable for home educating their would just choose this rather than going to work? Home ed isn't regulated, so you could actually choose to do nothing with your children.

I also think it may encourage the LEA to ask parents to do this rather than working towards finding a suitable school for them.

SisterMichaelsHabit · 25/09/2023 08:21

Sorry I disagree. Otherwise it opens the floodgates that there's no requirement to work before children are of school age. Or anyone who just feels like having their kids at home to avoid having to get a job. People would start having kids to keep them at home and that would produce a very uneducated underclass of children who were denied education by their parents just to not have to work, and the state would have let those children down.
While I empathise with your situation, home ed is a lifestyle choice and the government etc would construct the argument that you could use SEN provision (however inadequate that is in reality) eg a SEN school with qualified professionals instead.
And I do say that as someone who would love to keep the kids home and home ed them to cater for DC1's special needs.

Thesearmsofmine · 25/09/2023 08:23

I’m in two minds about this. I get what you are saying but how would it be regulated and would it make off rolling more common?

Original poster
Homeeducationproblems · 25/09/2023 08:23

MojoMoon · 25/09/2023 08:20

Ideally if your child has enough difficulties that they cannot be in school and the LEA doesn't have suitable special education provision, then parents should get carers allowance or other similar payment which would then facilitate home education. In an ideal world this would be very rare as special education would be suitably funded.

I don't think the religious wingnuts who don't want their children mingling with heathens should get payments from the state to facilitate this to home educate. Or those who take their kids out of school to avoid safeguarding concern investigations.

This is why I think engagement with the LA home education department could be the factor that then means parents can have help via UC as from my experience it’s these parents who have suddenly de registered who are willing to engage, give examples of work and meet with the LA ( other home educators refuse and have a go at those who do it’s a very volatile community if you don’t do what the long standing ones do!)

OP posts:
PurpleMonkeys · 25/09/2023 08:23

If the government announced parent could home school their kids and get a payment to do so...
Sure some parents would relish it and teach their kids well and proper.
But there would be also be abusive parents, whose kids have school as their refuge, you'd be effectively taking that refuge away.
There's also school dinners, sadly, there's many kids who only get a decent meal thanks to schools.

In an ideal world OP, I'd actually agree with you. State funded homeschooling would be a good alternative to state funded school education that has risks of teachers forcing Ideologies on to kids that parents don't want.

But this is not an ideal world. It's a shit one.
Abusers. Addicts. Selfish arseholes and bad parents of many types will see it as free cash and you'd plunge many children into horror.

IhearyouClemFandango · 25/09/2023 08:23

I agree that should the LA not be able to accommodate a child's needs then the parent should not be penalised for needing to stay at home end educating them.

For run of the mill home ed, no, as that just incentivizes those who are not prioritising their kids' needs perhaps.

Hard to differentiate between the two sometimes I suspect.

Original poster
Homeeducationproblems · 25/09/2023 08:26

Thesearmsofmine · 25/09/2023 08:23

I’m in two minds about this. I get what you are saying but how would it be regulated and would it make off rolling more common?

It would probably mean a formal register for those home educating and checks as currently it’s all optional. I had On a fb group a massive pile on me as I’d said I’d sent example of work to the LA as requested and they told me that was horrendous as it makes it more difficult for them of others start giving samples and allowing visits I had to leave 2 groups as it was awful. The thing is I never wanted to home educate and now I have to I want the LA to see I’m doing my best and to see the progress in work etc. I think only a formal register and the yearly visit and report being compulsory not optional

OP posts:
KeepTheTempo · 25/09/2023 08:26

It would be an absolute licence for terrible behaviour by some parents and likely some LEAs too.

Home educating can be wonderful for all concerned, but the reality is that most parents are not appropriate educators, and this is even more true of many (not all!) of the parents of children who don't want to go to school.

Spikeyball · 25/09/2023 08:26

If there is no suitable full time placement for a child then there should be no requirement to work. The difficulty will be officially separating out those who have chosen to home ed and those who have no other choice ( except for eotas which should also give no requirement to work).

Gerrataere · 25/09/2023 08:27

I do get what you mean, but I disagree. It would open huge issues in safeguarding. So many kids would go under the radar, abuse, not giving full education, young girls disappear for marriage abroad….

As a parent of two autistic children there have been many times where I’ve despaired of the education system, but the answer is not making schooling fully optional from home.

Original poster
Homeeducationproblems · 25/09/2023 08:28

where I live it’s very much 2 distinct groups those like me who never planned it and engage fully and those who planned it and know their rights and seem very angry with anyone who submits examples of work , I remember saying to someone once ‘but can you imagine Ofsted going to a school and the HT saying no sorry we won’t show you anything ‘ or parents evening and being told ‘you can’t see the books as the work is the child’s private property’

OP posts:
Original poster
Homeeducationproblems · 25/09/2023 08:29

Gerrataere · 25/09/2023 08:27

I do get what you mean, but I disagree. It would open huge issues in safeguarding. So many kids would go under the radar, abuse, not giving full education, young girls disappear for marriage abroad….

As a parent of two autistic children there have been many times where I’ve despaired of the education system, but the answer is not making schooling fully optional from home.

Yes sadly you have a point about safeguarding that’s why maybe a formal register and visits etc would be required but then I guess the cost of that would be high

OP posts:
KeepTheTempo · 25/09/2023 08:29

As well as all the risks for kids, it's also a longer term economic problem. At the end of the children's schooling, there will also be a parent who's likely in late middle age with no career history to get a job, and no pension contributions, much more likely to have to remain on long term benefits.

Better to fight for the money to go into more appropriate schooling provisions (though that does also feel like a distant dream right now).

Original poster
Homeeducationproblems · 25/09/2023 08:30

Even current dla wait times for a new claim is 5/6 months and not everyone gets it’s at first even if entitled so I see so many struggling trying to sort that out, work and look after dc who in some cases can’t be left alone it just seems like they are in desperate need of support and missing out

OP posts:
sobeyondthehills · 25/09/2023 08:32

I do agree with you, but by doing this the government and councils would have to admit what a shit show the SEN support is and I think it would bring to light some of the underhanded tactics certain councils use, which I dont think they would like.

howshouldibehave · 25/09/2023 08:32

This will never happened-the LA want everyone in school. It could open the floodgates for people not wanting to go out to paid work and preferring to stay at home, but not necessarily offering any sort of quality education for their child. It would need very close monitoring and regulating as well which would cost the LA a fortune (again, not happening).

Original poster
Homeeducationproblems · 25/09/2023 08:32

KeepTheTempo · 25/09/2023 08:29

As well as all the risks for kids, it's also a longer term economic problem. At the end of the children's schooling, there will also be a parent who's likely in late middle age with no career history to get a job, and no pension contributions, much more likely to have to remain on long term benefits.

Better to fight for the money to go into more appropriate schooling provisions (though that does also feel like a distant dream right now).

Yes you have a point. It’s just such a difficult situation and seems to be the main topic of conversation between parents each time we meet . We tried to offer each other support but some of the dc are not happy with anyone unfamiliar or other dc around so it didn’t work as well as hoped

OP posts:
GeneralLevy · 25/09/2023 08:33

The reality for most is you can’t have the model of one parent not working. You need to share home and work, then you aren’t caught up so much. I claim cared a myself, but I also maintain part time work of around £500 pcm that I can raise hours in. Many have parents working a few days a week.

Most lone parents I know manage with the self employment option to earn the minimum amount for light touch, and therefore avoid the mandatory stuff. I know this is just changing- I don’t know how they’ll manage the ‘no childcare’ issue. If they’ll be able
to convince a support worker it’s impossible to find short term childcare.

One I know has stopped UC and is living off next to nothing. Another claims ESA herself.

I think the upshot is- you actually have to be very very creative and hard working to manage home education and UC. It’s no lazy option.

TheCupboardUnderTheStairsAtTheMojoDojoCasaHouse · 25/09/2023 08:36

The answer isn't UC. It's better school provision for those with SEN.

We already have more than enough parents who will choose home education for the wrong reasons - including some who are deregistered to avoid prosecution for non- attendance, travellers, along with the Sara Sharif, Khyra Ishaq and Dylan Seabridges of this world.

The last thing we want to do is to create an incentive whereby allowing children to be so badly behaved to be excluded multiple times means that the parent has 'no option' but to home educate - bingo, in one fell swoop the school is off their back and UC is off their back. You'd be very naïve to think some parents wouldn't do that.

GeneralLevy · 25/09/2023 08:37

Homeeducationproblems · 25/09/2023 08:26

It would probably mean a formal register for those home educating and checks as currently it’s all optional. I had On a fb group a massive pile on me as I’d said I’d sent example of work to the LA as requested and they told me that was horrendous as it makes it more difficult for them of others start giving samples and allowing visits I had to leave 2 groups as it was awful. The thing is I never wanted to home educate and now I have to I want the LA to see I’m doing my best and to see the progress in work etc. I think only a formal register and the yearly visit and report being compulsory not optional

Show quote history

Are you aware the LA does not employ teachers or anyone qualified in education to check examples sent in? It’s a admin role, usually a low band one. You aren’t getting any approval it’s good, just that you complied. That’s the issue.

Thesearmsofmine · 25/09/2023 08:40

Homeeducationproblems · 25/09/2023 08:26

It would probably mean a formal register for those home educating and checks as currently it’s all optional. I had On a fb group a massive pile on me as I’d said I’d sent example of work to the LA as requested and they told me that was horrendous as it makes it more difficult for them of others start giving samples and allowing visits I had to leave 2 groups as it was awful. The thing is I never wanted to home educate and now I have to I want the LA to see I’m doing my best and to see the progress in work etc. I think only a formal register and the yearly visit and report being compulsory not optional

Show quote history

Yeah you won’t get much support in home ed groups for that. I choose to home ed and wouldn’t pile on you but not would I agree with you.
Really if you don’t want to home ed than rather than arguing to be getting financial help from UC you need to be arguing for better provision for children who can’t cope with what is currently available(I have been around home ed long enough to know how dire things are for some). Sadly though you are on a hiding to nothing.