To think that home education should mean one parent has no requirement to work under UC?

[Homeeducationproblems]

I home educate but I’m in receipt of carers allowance so I don’t have to worry but many of the parents in the groups we attend have children with difficulties who couldn’t manage school and because they don’t get dla or are waiting for a dla claim (it takes months) they are under extreme pressure.

I know that some people plan to home educate and yes if its a choice for NT dc from age 4 then I can see why they’d be expected to fund that/work alongside but there’s a huge groups of parents struggling to home educate children with difficulties and it seems as if they aren’t recognised and supported ?

AIBU to think that if you’ve had to de register for a child who can’t manage school and you are engaging with your LA home education department (a lot of home educators refuse to engage so there should be something in place where UC have it verified ?) that you should be able to get UC with no requirement to work?

@Sunnyeggyp 😂🤦‍♀️ I’ve literally just this minute been banned from posting on my local home ed Facebook group because someone asked a question about x from the LA coming to do a visit- I said they are pleasant enough and I just allow visits. I was immediately jumped on and told I was naive and don’t understand, evil government plans, lies etc and when I said I’m only telling her my personal experience (which is what she had asked for- people’s experience with this person) I was banned 🤷‍♀️.

You've misunderstood my point again about the checks and balances done at school as opposed to home. Due diligence for data protection purposes is a legal requirement for organisation's to demonstrate they are complying with data protection laws. I cannot possibly detail those processes on a post on Mumsnet as it is not just a checklist, you have to know what you are looking for and be trained in that area of works. Schools get someone like me (in the past) to advise them on what is involved and so that they can comply with the law or there is potential to get fined if a breach happened as a result of poor or no due diligence. As a private individual you are not subject to the laws if your processing is for personal use only but that isn't a good thing if you are sharing your child's data with no knowledge of where it goes, how it is stored who it is shared with. Data protection laws are there to ensure the human rights of a Subject are considered whereas information security does not always have that concern so when you refer to 'security risks' these are not the only issues. There is loads of information on the ICO website and obviously on the internet.

You appear to be willfully misinterpreting my points. I didn't say that parents' choosing to homeschool to stop those things being inflicted on children is a bad thing if that is the only answer. I am responding to the OP and don't think money should be used in this way, it should be used to make the system work for everyone. IMO many children will be let down educationally if this was to be enacted.

I’m aware of that. You are missing my point- I’m asking what data you are concerned that parents are unknowingly sharing? I’m not asking about the procedures schools use or why they use them.
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sharing your child's data with no knowledge of where it goes, how it is stored who it is shared with

"Very rich, resourced households maybe able to offer a good alternative (even then maybe not) but if it is accidental homeschooling it is the worst idea in the world."
There's no misinterpretation. That's literally what you said. 'Accidental homeschooling' covers every family who never planned to home ed. Those that came to it because their children had such an awful time in school that they wanted to end their lives, in some cases. It's obvious to anybody reading your comments, that you have such a biase towards home ed, you will continue to spew anything to justify your view. Your complete lack of empathy or understanding of these cases, says all I need to know. You can harp on about data protection in schools, like that makes a bloody jot of difference to parents of children who have been utterly and heartbreakingly broken by that system.

I was told similar things ms also that I was responsible for when others get a hard time from their LA as by showing work and allowing visits I was making these ehe officers think they have more power than they do - that I wasn’t thinking of others (which is true I was thinking of my dc making sure we were doing things right and obviously I understand that my dc aren’t seen at school each day so I feel happy there are professionals caring about their wellbeing , I’m not doing anything wrong so a visit isn’t a worry)

We are just going around in circles as you have misunderstood my point again. It is not wholly about 'what' personal data, that depends on what you are using it for, do you know what and how companies are using your children's personal data when you share it with them.

What personal data are home educators sharing?

All we were asked for was to show a few examples of work - we did this in person for a home visit (they just looked at it no photos etc) or with yearly reports we just emailed some examples in (usually similar eg comprehension work from one year to the next or art to show progress), I left the fb groups as after admitting this it was a pile on and I was called all sorts of things - the thing is I want the LA to check up that my dc are ok and getting a suitable education. I know it’s important . I also got had a go at for having a timetable as was told I shouldn’t be ‘recreating school’

There you go again wilfully misunderstanding. If a parent's only resort is homeschooling and it is accidental then it is surely not a good idea as they haven't chosen to do it, they have been forced in to that decision through lack of choice. Money should go on making sure that this isn't the case. When you say, 'harp on', what about privacy and the right to it, yes I certainly will be ensuring that for my children as the real life outcomes of not doing that can be hugely detrimental to their well-being either now or in the future!

You don't know anything about me and my DC, their experiences in school and the impact that has had on them.

Sorry I actually was aiming my comment at @Goldenbear I know what a home visit entails for home educators.

I am curious what personal data she believes that home educators are sharing online?

I home educate my youngest child who has ASD and dyspraxia. It takes time and some financial resources to be performed well. I also run my own business, I don't claim UC and I have a serious disability. It is a struggle balancing everything in the week, but we get there because she is happier at home and academically thriving. However, the Government are never going to allow UC claimants to avoid the work rules because their children are home educated. It would be akin to admitting that the State education system doesn't suit everyone, and isn't always desirable or best. I broadly agree with some of the comments made in this thread. Some home educators have a political agenda weaved in stories of State conspiracy, indoctrination and surveillance that make them opposed to cooperating with home education officers. It is, for some, rooted in adverse experience of the establishment (the Portsmouth council experience is one example). However, I do think there is some hypocrisy amongst them if they have ever received benefits, used the NHS for care or otherwise relied upon State funding. You cannot hate State 'dictators' and then gladly receive remuneration from this source as well. Many home educated families we have met are not using schools because they didn't attend themselves (parents) or because the school has failed to meet child needs in some way. The parents who were home educated run family business operations, or became professionals like nurses or dentists. They seem to have a genuine interest in their child's well being and best interests, and make lots of effort to make sure their child is exposed to a formal education. Long let it remain that home education be a choice for parents to make, and not legislated against as has happened in some other countries.

How would I know what personal data you are sharing, that's like asking me what colour shoes do you like or what did you have dinner last Wednesday. It is known to you what if any personal data you are sharing, more importantly if you are doing that who is it with and how is used. How will it be used in the future.

Facebook is a massive way of connecting in the community, I don’t know anyone who left it entirely. You’re denying then a massive amount of groups if you do. Just stop arguing and ignore those threads like most people

What would happen is chancers and arseholes would remove their children from school 'to make money' and wouldn't even try to educate them. Cos people try to exploit the system wherever they can.

This would be a safeguarding risk and rob already vulnerable children of an education.

It's not about well meaning good citizens OP. It just wouldn't work.

So why are you insinuating that home educated children are any more at risk? Children in school also have parents who may be sharing their data online. Yes, schools out safeguards in place while in school but as you say yourself that isn’t the case outside of school so there is the same risk there.

We are going round in circles because you have asserted that there are serious data related issues concerning home education, but each time you are asked anything further you act as if it is special clever information that only special clever you can understand.

You mention ‘data’ and ‘companies’- all I’m asking is; what data and which companies are you referring to?!

I fully accept that this isn’t my wheelhouse, if it was why would I be asking you?

You seem to be so committed to the ‘home ed parents are a bit thick and can’t really understand the world, their poor children’ thing that you have lost all your communication skills!

I wonder if you live near me?! I could really do with connecting with some home educators who see things this way.

It isn’t actually that easy- yes you can just ignore the conversations about the LA, but what happens when you go to a group and someone says ‘can you you do x on Tuesday?’ and you say no, that’s when my child’s tutor comes… and before you can say when you can make it they have looked at you like you have just announced you brand your child and lock them in the cupboard.

I’ve given up trying 🤷‍♀️ what with that and the massive number of ultra religious people who won’t include my son because I’m a dyke.

😩I cannot tell you what personal data you share only you know that, if at all. The companies again are ones you choose to use for homeschooling but also the ones they use if they use sub- processors.

I never said, 'serious' but it could be! depends on what 'you' choose to use personal data for.

If you want to learn about data protection like I have already posted, the ICO website is good. You would have to teach yourself all about it or go on a course. I am not special and it is not an exclusive club but like anyone you will have to pursue your interest or job in it yourself.

Right, so as I expected- normal online use for both home ed and schooled children. The universal data protection issues that occur in every family because children and parents don’t only use the internet and interact with the mysterious ‘companies’ inside school 🤦‍♀️.

We got there in the end.

Long let it remain that home education be a choice for parents to make, and not legislated against

there will have to be legislation against it soon. The labour plan to charge VAT on school fees has such an easy work-around if clusters of 15 sets of parents of 7 year olds happen to choose to home-educate and club together to employ tutors for the group of them, and for an agency to exist which helps to gather together like-minded families and hire them a venue for such get-togethers. The new labour government will either have to have VAT on tutoring too or have much more draconian policing of home-ed.

Well no, sorry, again you've misunderstood as you are alluding to e-safety, that isn't what data protection is about. Schools have to by law carry out the due diligence that informs the protections they put in place to comply with data protection laws. You as a private individual don't have that obligation put upon you and won't be drawing up contracts, data sharing agreements, applying technical measures, have you obtained ISO certification for example? When you are looking at the privacy notice do you know what you are looking for to guarantee your privacy? No offence but I doubt it as you haven't understood the difference between e-safety and data protection! The risks are mitigated by organisations as they have specialist knowledge that they can apply in different areas of school life, like safeguarding, like data protection, like cyber security and professional expertise that is not going to be covered by one parent. Yes, parents can use their Ed tech for example outside of the safety net of school but are they likely to diverge from the ones checked out by the school and used to compliment the curriculum, probably not.

If it was as simple as you are making out there would be no need for my kind of job at all.

Ultimately, I'm not really going to provide free consultancy on the above, why would I?

Being badly schooled during Covid is not a safeguarding risk. An education risk, yes. They are not the same things.

I'm asking this question: what evidence is there that families that homeschool are proportionally more likely to pose safeguarding risks to their children than families with children in school.

I'm assuming there is no such evidence and this is just an assertion that people who have a vested interest in schools make.

I'm not pro- or anti- homeschooling. I think for some children it works, whilst others are better in school. However some people in government positions do seem to be very anti-homeschooling.

There are plenty of online providers of homeschooling materials now. If parents aren't well educated themselves they can access these. Some you have to pay for of course, so those who don't have any money will likely get worse resources. However there are also free resources. The LA / government could have a role in approving online homeschooling resources to help homeschooling parents, but to my knowledge do not do this. I do think that if a child is homeschooled due to trauma in school / inability of the school to meet the child's needs, then the LA should have some responsibility to finance homeschooling resources for that family.