To think that home education should mean one parent has no requirement to work under UC?

[Homeeducationproblems]

I home educate but I’m in receipt of carers allowance so I don’t have to worry but many of the parents in the groups we attend have children with difficulties who couldn’t manage school and because they don’t get dla or are waiting for a dla claim (it takes months) they are under extreme pressure.

I know that some people plan to home educate and yes if its a choice for NT dc from age 4 then I can see why they’d be expected to fund that/work alongside but there’s a huge groups of parents struggling to home educate children with difficulties and it seems as if they aren’t recognised and supported ?

AIBU to think that if you’ve had to de register for a child who can’t manage school and you are engaging with your LA home education department (a lot of home educators refuse to engage so there should be something in place where UC have it verified ?) that you should be able to get UC with no requirement to work?

You keep insisting that home ed children are not engaged with any of the 'normal' teenage rights of passage. Such as risk taking. Is your children's only chance for social development during the times they are in school? When they are supposed to be learning from all of these subject experts you speak of? That doesn't give them much time to develop. Or perhaps they develop socially outside of school....Home ed kids spend a lot of time with each other too. They learn together, play together and grow together. Just like school kids. The difference being, if there is a particularly nasty child or a bully, they don't have to be subjected to it. Social media has brought with it horrific trends, such as children telling each other to kill themselves! This is real and it is happening. You're living in a bubble if you think its not!
HE kids don't have to hear or see highly inappropriate behaviour before their teen years or even then. Why would any normal person want them subjected to that, in the name of freedom of choice? Home ed kids are out in the world, living and experiencing. They aren't stuck at home, cut off from friends. They have ample chances to make mistakes and negotiate difficult situations. It's almost amusing to see people who obviously know nothing about home ed, argue against it.

This is demonstrably untrue though. There are many arguments to support home ed for some children, in some circumstances.

You're the one living in a bubble if you don't think that home ed kids aren't aware of the same social media trends as kids in school. In some cases (though certainly not all), home ed kids actually have a lot more unsupervised internet use, given their need for more self-directed research and the fact that many home ed parents also have to make time for paid work, while many others are not engaged in their children's education very much at all.

That's not the case for the home ed parents I see posting on MN, who are generally doing this with great effort and skill as a family choice, or with reluctance but absolute best endeavours for a child who is not able to access suitable school provision. But unfortunately many of the kids being pulled or pushed out of school are not in either of these situations

And that's the biggest issue with funding parents to stay home. Ther are a decent number of home ed families where unfortunately home ed has been a way to keep unacceptable situations under wraps - things that would be spotted and likely acted on in a school - or to avoid the challenges involved in supporting a reluctant child to go to school or access alternative provisions at home, college or elsewhere.

I am not a 'normal person', what for wanting my teens to go to college and school? It is not exactly an irregular aspiration. Do I want to micro manage their every decision in navigating the teen years - no I don't, you know why, because it is stifiling to creativity, something I'm sure certain home education advocates are entirely convinced they are the champions of- unschooling for the benefit of creativity!

The main issue is that both members of the family have to be earning good money to afford their children certain opportunities, one on UC is not going to provide enough money, what are they supposed to do with no options, put up with a second rate education. The money needs to go on reforming and bettering the system for all not just a few that HE.

Oh I am living in a sort of bubble. Happily. It's a bubble in which my young DD is protected from the horrors of social media bullying, from sexualisation and from hearing or seeing distressing scenes in a school environment, which is happening in schools all too often. Because, that's what home ed gives us. The choice in how much they are subjected too and at appropriate ages. Are there home ed families who don't have this in the forefront of their minds and allow their children to access it? Most certainly. However, a huge portion of us, who I personally know, see this protection as a huge advantage of home ed life.
Our children do get to experience life and all that it brings with it, but the recent vile parts do not need to be experienced at a young age. People concerning themselves about safeguarding for the home ed community, need to concern themselves more with the children in the school environment, because it is an underfunded and overwhelmed shitshow.

I don't understand the link between children with SEN being educated at home and claiming DLA? If a child's needs mean they qualify for DLA, where they are educated is irrelevant. If a parent feels the LA cannot meet the child's educational needs in school and therefore the child is taken out of school, their eligibility for benefits is no different.

The issue around funding and money is separate to all the previous points you have made.
We don't claim UC or any other benefit (not even child benefit) We are financially secure and our children are afforded every opportunity. This is the case for most HE families I know.
Like in every walk of life, we hear most from those who are struggling. HE families who are forced to HE because of lack of provision for their SEN child or other school related trauma, are less likely to have financially planned for HE. Do they need financial support? Perhaps. But I don't know how that would be best implemented.
It is ignorant to form your whole opinion on home education, based on what you know from families who are forced into HE through lack of choice. Again, I would look at the failings of the school system/government to why those families are in that position.

If you choose to home educate the 6k funding that goes to the school should be accessed for tutors/resources/exams. Home schooling should be regulated to a degree (although how it would work I don't know)

If you mean the "notional" mythical £6k that schools spend on children on the SEN register - I've got news for you. That £6k doesn't actually exist. It's the made-up sum that schools are expected to spend, from their existing resources, to meet each child's SEN before top-up funding is given. There isn't a £6k funding pot actually provided or made available for children with SEN. It's just a figure pulled from a politicians arse without the actual ring fenced funding attached to it, that schools have been told to find before asking for more.

There is no £6k.

Then imagine that a 3 form entry school has 10 kids in every year group on the SEN register (that's only about 3 per class, maybe even a low guesstimate) - that's £360,000 every year to be spent on those children but without any actual extra funding, just expected to be "found" within the existing inadequate budget!

I think pp might mean the per pupil funding which is around 6kish.

They have a duty but they don't always bother doing anything about it.

I have a child claiming high DLA and low mobility. A number of friends we have claiming this also work. Many with very high needs understandably rely on school and other provision for respite. Others both parents share work.
I’m only saying this as sometimes it’s presented as we are a non-working and dependent group in home Ed, or otherwise. Many of us actually do balance work. It’s not because the needs are low either, often actually needs are complex and profound and some work is a way of still having you time. The evenings I work are adult conversation and frankly can be less exhausting.
I do think there’s a very complex issue around SEN and home Ed. It’s not straightforward. There are children protected to the point of limitation. Obviously not all, but I’ve seen it a fair few times. One single policy change I don’t think would work. With funding I think monitoring would have to change massively, both in quality and the amount. Currently it’s a meaningless process not worth engaging in. On a personal level I’d rather work than have that- but I’m probably old school on that. I appreciate the world of home Ed and expectations is changing from the old ‘go it alone’ mentality

I voted YABU but only because the specific proposal of being home-educating is an insufficient trigger.

I agree with you that if a child has SEN to the extent that there's no provision in the LEA that can meet needs and they give you no choice but to home educate then that should trigger an exemption from some of the UC requirements. You should only be required to work/look for work for the hours that the state is able to provide a reliable long-term setting where your child feels safe and is able to thrive.

If the state's best option for provision cannot do this then yes it should be possible for the EHCP to specify that all involved professionals agree that Home Ed (potentially with support from other professionals) is the best option for the child and in that case that should trigger some UC exemptions.

However if there is an appropriate setting that the state can provide that the parent wants to choose to opt out of in favour of home ed, then no it's not appropriate for the benefits system to make that option more affordable.

I'm really interested on the evidence for this - because I've seen it mentioned many times and in safeguarding talks (homeschooling as a 'red flag') but I actually have never seen any evidence that it's a widespread problem that children are homeschooled to keep safeguarding concerns a secret from the school.

What's far more common in my experience is that there is a family and child struggling, the child doesn't get the help they need in school. Relationships between parents and school break down (or were non-existent to begin with), the parents are threatened with social services / attendance fines (because their disabled child's attendance was low in one particular case) and decide the stress and hassle being heaped upon them AND THEIR CHILD is far too much and decide to homeschool instead. Often with a lot of success, and other times not so much success but still the child probably feels safer than in school.

This idea that schools are havens of excellent safeguarding when often they are not e.g. children who've been sexually assaulted and then the perpetrator is then allowed to carry on attending the same school. How is that safeguarding? Sometimes I believe parents homeschooling their children is an act TO safeguard.

I just haven't seen the evidence to support the statement that many families homeschooling are somehow a safeguarding risk to their own children. Or any evidence to back up that it's a higher proportion than families whose children are in school.

But that Poster is not making that point, they are questioning whether they have carried out the rigourous checks and balances on the services and websites the children are using for educational purposes. Are the parents competent in doing that or is there an accidental safeguarding issue at play due to the parents' inattentiveness. It is not just safeguarding, there is also the question of privacy around data sharing that many parents will not have any knowledge of. I work in data protection and privacy and I did work in the education sector and my job was carrying out the due diligence and establishing the correct contractual obligations on the part of the software providers, ensuring that the products/services we used complied with data protection laws. There is no way that this would be a consideration or understood in a domestic capacity and the 'free' online education providers would not be scrutinised in that way.

Quite apart from any of that it is pretty obvious that most parents would not be able to provide the foundations of knowledge in the core subjects, let alone when it comes to GCSES or A levels. If the parents in this scenario can barely even read and write themselves where does that leave the children's education- in the Homeschooling chat area on MN, there is a thread where a woman talks about her awful experience of being homeschooled and what she missed out on, it is a thoroughly depressing read. If you are acing homeschooling you will be the exception and have lots of money, lots of resources and a level of intelligence that allows you to determine what is useful, what is safe, what is happening to my child's data when using ed tech. How many parents have that between them? I actually want my DD to see that I have a job that is worthy of my qualifications and hard work and that she can also be financially independent whoever she is and whatever abilities she has. That this is not just something for the high achievers that would do well anyway, in spite of schooling. If my only option is UC and homeschooling as the provisions are so crap then that is frankly not good enough!

The thread is about whether the UC for homeschooling is a feasible plan and I don't think it is, it is a waste of money when the whole system needs an overhaul. Education is the cornerstone of economic success, with this solution we will not have the skilled workforce we need in place for that success or even societal success!

To add to this, you say what evidence, a big bit of evidence is the shit way many of us handled educating our children at home during COVID. You can argue that is not 'proper' homeschooling but that's the point how many people can offer a good homeschooling experience- not many!

I agree that this would be the best option. With receipts and oversight, something like childcare vouchers maybe. That way money is evidenced as directly benefiting the child.

All children have access to the internet, home educated or not. Inappropriate data sharing, privacy issues etc are issues in nearly every house in the country- parents have to be pro active In monitoring ALL media access- I don’t see how using Twinkl or bbc bitesize puts my son at higher risk of online issues than any other child.

If it comes to it I know he isn’t off looking at stuff he shouldn’t because I know the only internet access he has is monitored and provided by me… kids in school can get hold of anything.

You appear to be labouring under the impression that your level of intelligence and education is vastly higher than most other people’s, and thus people are incapable of understanding what their children need and how to provide it. Clearly that isn’t the case a lot of the time.

Your response to that post highlights your lack of knowledge in that area as you have misinterpreted what I am outlining to be about e-safety, I am not referring to e-safety and unless you work in that area of work where you understand the laws and how they apply and what technical and organisational measures you have to put in place, then your average parent won't have this level of understanding to apply this knowledge. If it was that easy why do you think Privacy/data, cyber security specialists, who understand the work after years of experience and qualifications are rewarded highly other than in the public sector? What you are referring to is essentially safeguarding, they are not the same thing!

I am not assuming that position at all as I have referred to my own shortcomings when it comes to areas of knowledge and how I wouldn't be able to teach my child the core subjects at secondary level due to my lack of specialist knowledge. If you have a child that has to leave the school system due to behaviour issues that are partly due to the home life, where does that leave the child with the suitability of homeschooling? Very rich, resourced households maybe able to offer a good alternative (even then maybe not) but if it is accidental homeschooling it is the worst idea in the world.

Ok- please can you explain the cyber security risks of bbc bitesize? Of other educational resources?

And my point that children who go to school still use educational sites/softwear/programs etc still applies. That isn’t only an issue for home educated children… or all home educated children.

Clearly some parents/families are not suitable to home educate, that’s obvious to everyone I would have thought. I don’t think spurious claims and whataboutery add anything to the discussion.

@Studswagger school Internet access has safety measures, children can't access anything. Certain sites and search words are blocked.

'Accidental homeschooling is the worst idea in the world' Wow. Some of these children have been bullied to within an inch of their lives, sexually assaulted and/or have had the worst time in school because of their special needs not being catered for. These are real documented cases. Children who have been so severely traumatised by what's happened to them in school that some consider suicide and need counselling. Taking them out of that environment and nurturing them back to to full health, happiness and the desire to learn again, is the worst idea in the world? Just stop spewing your ignorant, anti home ed views. You haven't got a clue!

My thoughts entirely. Plus they would then be removing their children from safeguarding care, and this could, in some cases, be very dangerous.

OP you have no idea how hard long term home educators have had to fight to retain our right to home educate without LA intrusion so do try not to judge too harshly. Many of us actively chose to home educate to provide a better childhood for our DC. Thousands have now been forced into home education through off rolling or have fallen into it after lockdown. The difference between the groups is vast and we will probably never understand or agree with each others stance.

Yeah I know it does in principal, but it isn’t watertight by any means. For one thing it depends on what has been decided to be blocked (for example in a religious school any sites related to gay rights were blocked, but pro ana sites were freely accessible). Also it isn’t difficult for a savvy teen to bypass a lot of the blocks- mine certainly can!

This is very true. I am frequently lambasted for cooperating with the LA by home edders ranging from ‘home Ed for religious reasons’, to conspiracy theorists who think they are free men on the land 🤷‍♀️. They want ‘the system’ to leave them alone.

They have very little in common with the home ed people who can’t send their children to school because of sen and trauma and lack of provision… and they are generally not very friendly to us. I think it’s because when your child has additional needs you want help, support, opportunities for them in specialist settings and thus are used to working with/alongside/battling with the system. It isn’t something you are trying to get away from, it’s something you are often trying to break into!