WIBU to take this much from DD’s benefits?

[BlueLines81]

My DD is 19 and has a disability, she is not able to work and won’t be able to for the foreseeable. She receives PIP.

As she’s no longer in education, I was not entitled to claim benefits for her from the end of august this year. My tax credits went down quite considerably, and lost CB too, and all of my housing benefit. All together I am about £190 per week worse off. Which isn’t great as I am a single parent and also have a health condition (I receive low rate mobility PIP), and I had to give my job up in July as I couldn’t manage it anymore, so that’s another £1000ish per month down.

I am self employed and doing bits and pieces where I can, to give you an idea I’ve managed about 12 hours of work this month.

I did an online calculator in august and it looked like I would be better off on UC, and also needed to start a UC claim for DD, so I claimed for us both on the same day. We had an appointment at the jobcentre for DD’s claim a couple of weeks ago, and the advisor suggested that I become her appointee and I could have her UC paid into my account, if we felt DD didn’t have the capacity to manage it herself. I asked DD what she thought and she said she’d rather it was paid into my account. I am getting fit notes for both of us from the doctor and and hopefully we will both be entitled to the LCWRA elements.

The idea of being an adult and having to pay bills terrifies DD, mentally she is more like a 12 year old in a lot of ways. I have spoken to her about it and said the options are that either we work out exactly what her share of rent and bills etc would be and she just gives me the money for those, and she can arrange her own food shopping etc, and pay for herself if she wants to come on holidays etc. Or I keep the amount that I’ve lost in benefits for her, she can have whatever is leftover (which I think will still mean she’s better off than she is now with just her PIP). And then she can carry on essentially being a child for as long as she wants (I don’t mean this negatively, she regularly gets very tearful that she’s not a child anymore). She liked the sound of that option better. She just doesn’t want to have to think about finances at all.

But AIBU to take this much money from her? I don’t know the exact figures of what I’ll have lost until we get our first UC statements in a few days, but will probably be at least £150 per week. I know this a lot more than a lot of people take from adult children, which is why I feel bad, but then maybe they have a partner or are just financially in a better situation than I am. Realistically she’s going to be living at home for many more years to come.

Things are tight for a lot of family's right now if you keep up with the news. I can imagine it isn't a nice feeling and if you're entitled to what you're getting that's fair enough. I'm not begrudging your daughter her benefits but....

I just don't think it's for you to decide who gets control of your daughters benefits as ultimately what you suggest (her having whatever is left over and it being more than enough) seems to benefit you the best.

You've said she's smart but is chronically fatigued, That doesn't warrant her giving you control of her money surely?

£150 per week might sound a fair deal to you but I would guess that's above average.

If you think that you having control of her money and giving her the rest after you've had your share out of it then go ahead. It just feels a little flakey to me, sorry.

Ah, so you reported a change of condition ? It’s always tricky because they don’t just review the changes you report, they review your whole claim, so there’s always a chance that if they don’t agree, it could be reduced or stopped altogether, as you’ve found out to your cost.

The DWP have failed to comply with Tribunals a number of times - usually by either the representative failing to turn up, or not having the right documentation when they do. The Tribunal then have no choice but to delay proceedings and will have directed DWP to produce the documents within 28 days. If they fail, they are given a further 14 days to do so, or explain why they haven’t and then the Tribunal will decide the next course of action. If the DWP continue to delay, the Tribunal may ask you, as the appellant, to provide more information and may decide the case without the DWP submission, but this is just one course of action open to them, depending on the circumstances. It’s very frustrating, but don’t give up hope - if they find in your favour, your benefit award will be backdated to the date it stopped.

That’s not the case though. The OP is her DD’s representative with DWP and therefore charged with making sure the money is used appropriately. She’s not doing anything wrong if she’s taking the PIP money to use for her daughters’ needs and giving her essentially an allowance from the rest. DD is still resident with the OP and if she’s on the enhanced rates of PIP then there will be significant levels of disability and consequently increased care costs, so it’s not unreasonable to think that DD is significantly financially reliant on the OP, given how much it would cost for her to live independently.

@Rosscameasdoody Hi. The tribunal had a copy of my documents . Numbered 1-260. They said I needed the exact samr documents in that order. I had my own copies of letters I'd sent but they said I need them numbered like their so they can tell me easily which page I need to look at. I really hoped they would make a decision without me. Sorry for taking up the thred. Thanks for your help. I had to appeal when I made the original claim
And they send me some documents but they weren't in order and one page had 2021 reports and on the back it was a 2010. It stressed me trying to sort them.

My adult son is severely autistic. I’ve been his appointee since was 16. His benefits are paid into my main current account and then I transfer it into a “pot” within that account so it’s separate. At 19 we asked his care manager about this and she said add up all household outgoings, divide it by the number of people in the house and that is a reasonable amount for him to pay. It leaves him plenty for clothes etc. I have friends that just put it in the family pot otherwise they wouldn’t be able to pay their rent especially as most of my friends with adult children at home have to become full time carers and give up work once education falls away.

She’s highly unlikely to get the higher rate of PIP for mobility. If you don’t have a physical disability you need to prove severe mental impairment which doesn’t sound like the OP’s daughter.

And yes the money you get from PIP goes to pay the for the car. The cars aren’t free.

I can see where the care manager is coming from, but just dividing your outgoings by the number of people in the house, doesn’t account for the extra needs arising from his condition - and that’s what PIP is for, so it’s over simplifying a bit.

The mobility component of pip is weird. There are two sections “moving around “ making and planning a journey”. If you get the right amount of points on the moving around part you are entitled to a blue badge. My son gets 0 points on “moving around” but 12 points on “making and planning a journey” so he’s entitled to enhanced rate of PIP for mobility but not a blue badge. He does have one but we had to jump through hoops.

It’s just a general guide. My son is left with plenty to cover the other stuff relating to his disability.

I'm totally confused as to how the disabilities and how these impact your daughter would warrant an assessment of high mobility.

You keep hearing here that it is very hard to get and even people on wheelchairs can't get it.

Your dd can walk more than 50m, is highly intelligent, and capable of taking a train and Uber.

It sounds that she suffers from fatigue, many days but is fine on others and she can engage on activities and doesn't want to become an adult. How does this mean her mobility needs are high? Really puzzled!

This isn’t correct. PIP was modified a while ago to be more inclusive of mental health conditions which covers a multitude of conditions and disabilities ranging from depression/anxiety to learning disability, to autism and everything in between. It’s more difficult for those with mental health issues to claim any element of PIP, not just the mobility component, due to the very nature of their condition, and many give up if they are refused because they can’t cope with the stress of appealling. But it’s perfectly possible to be awarded the mobility component entirely on mental health issues as long as you have the medical evidence to back up what you say and you satisfy the eligibility conditions.

It sounds to me as though the OP’s daughter has a mix of physical disability and learning issues, which would attract PIP mobility points from both categories - and she does receive higher rate mobility on PIP.

People in wheelchairs who cannot walk at all will always be eligible for the higher rate of PIP mobility. If someone is a wheelchair user but has some mobility they will be judged on the distance they can walk according to the PIP definition, regardless of the fact that they are a wheelchair user. And the OP’s daughter likely has a mix of learning and physical disability, going on what the OP has said. PIP awards are based not on the disability itself, but on the effect of the disability on daily life. And the distance walked is irrelevant for the mobility test if it can’t be done safely, reliably and repeatedly, and within a reasonable time frame - a definition which takes into account a multitude of considerations. The cut off distance for higher rate is 20 metres - this applies where there is severe physical or mental health condition, but it can be claimed by those who can walk further if they cannot do so according to this definition. Disability is wide ranging and varied, and it’s impossible to judge whether someone you’ve never met warrants a particular award, so you have to trust that the assessors, who have seen and judged the medical opinion and evidence actually know what they are doing.

That’s good then, as long as you’re happy with it - it just seemed a bit simplistic given the level of disability you’re coping with.

I didn't know the rules were strict on what you can do with the car. My old boss drove her husband in his car and I know she said that you had to have the person with you- no just use it for yourself but I didn't know all the caveats to the lease etc.
I do know that being on a fixed income with Uc. Op would find it hard to run two cars- I am sure people will say they do but there will be def have to be major cutbacks in other areas of expenditure.
As a couple on UC / disability we had a car on finance when my husbands agency work dried up( I was already on long term disability and the options were to trade it in and pay off what we owed or keep up the payments but cutback in other areas - we decided we needed the car in order to get to my various hospital appointments and my husband would be seriously hampered in his job search if he didn't have a car because the kind of work he is trained in is manufacturing so usually on an industrial estate in the middle of nowhere that starts at 06.00 am.with no public transport.
There is no separate help for car payments for people who come in to the uc system through no fault of their own I always think there should be.
Also it is great that OP daughter had free driving lessons but why just for people on pip mobility element- why not free or subsidised driving lessons at age 18
For all young long term unemployed.

8 points for physical disability alone indicates a significant level of difficulty with mobility so this score would automatically qualify the claimant for a blue badge without any further local authority assessment. For those claiming on mental health grounds, the requirement is higher - the claimant has to demonstrate that their mental health condition significantly impacts their ability to move around, so the only automatic qualifier is 10 points scored specifically by being unable to undertake any journey because it would cause overwhelming psychological distress. This doesn’t mean that they won’t qualify for a blue badge - it just means they will have to satisfy local authority eligibility instead of automatically qualifying via PIP.

A lot of people assume that a motability car can just be used as a family car, but that’s not the case. Generally the car must be used for the benefit of the disabled person, but that doesn’t always mean they have to be present in the car. For example it can be used by the nominated driver to visit the disabled person in hospital and bring them supplies, or to do their shopping or run errands on their behalf - anything that benefits them. As a general rule the blue badge can’t be used if the disabled person is not in the car. Where it can be used as a ‘family car’ is where the disabled person is resident with the nominated driver and is in some part financially dependent on them - this would apply to most couples. Trackers are placed in the cars where the claimant and the driver don’t live together and the rules are much stricter - the car must only be used for the benefit of the disabled person, and the car must be returned to the claimants address at the end of each day.

I agree with you on the provision of subsidised driving lessons but the difference here is that those provided by motability are at the cost of motability. If a wider scheme were made available as you suggest, it would likely be at the cost of the tax payer, so not sure about the viability.

I got 10 points for making a journey but it's not the physical part. It's confusing

and the car must be returned to the claimants address at the end of each day.

@Rosscameasdoody Not always. Sometimes it is agreed that the car can remain overnight at the driver’s address, especially where, as in the OP’s case, they are appointee.

10 points for planning and following a journey is standard rate mobility.

The mobility component of pip is weird. There are two sections “moving around “ making and planning a journey”. If you get the right amount of points on the moving around part you are entitled to a blue badge. My son gets 0 points on “moving around” but 12 points on “making and planning a journey” so he’s entitled to enhanced rate of PIP for mobility but not a blue badge. He does have one but we had to jump through hoops.

It's really weird that isn't it, we had the same, have to say our local council issued one with no question though.

@Rosscameasdoody

I do hear what you’re saying and it’s probably blindingly obvious, I have zero clue on how benefits work. Following on from your comment… I haven’t read from OP in any of her near 60 posts about additional care costs that you mention (cue this information appearing shortly no doubt) They can’t be that much due to the fact the DD is able to drive a car alone (if she passes in November), passed a theory test first time and can go into town with friends occasionally, however, if she had said ‘I work full time, DD can’t help with housework, I have to pay for a cleaner, someone to come and look after DD, bathe her, take her into town’ etc, then yes, I agree I wouldn’t have thought twice about the ‘But AIBU to take this much money from her? I don’t know the exact figures of what I’ll have lost until we get our first UC statements in a few days, but will probably be at least £150 per week. I know this a lot more than a lot of people take from adult children, which is why I feel bad, but then maybe they have a partner or are just financially in a better situation than I am’ comment, but I haven’t. That would make a lot more sense as to the question of AIBU surely rather than the OP’s first statement?

Im not disputing that DD is reliant financially on OP, surely that’s the case for a fairly high percentage of 19 year olds with or without ASD and so on. I’ve no figures to go on but would imagine a lot of 19 years olds still live at home and to some degree are the opposite to OP and are financially reliant on the parent. It seems the other way around in this situation and somehow doesn’t sit right with me…but then I’m not the one giving out the money or checking it’s appropriately spent so who am I to argue? I assume that it’s all based on trust as no delegated persons accounts are ever audited?

OP asks AIBU for taking this much from her? My answer would remain a firm yes. Sorry OP! I do wish you all the best in recovering and with the business venture for you both when you’re ready for it though!

Yanbu

@OvertakenByLego Yes I got a out £28 a week

@Meadowflower2023 often the only reason there are no additional care costs is because a parent is providing it all. But doing so their earning potential is then limited. This actually saves the taxpayer billions each year. If every carer outsourced the care of their child/parent/partner so they could work, Social Care would be in an even worse state than it already is as they would have to fund it. But they don't fund it and no one gives a shit about the carers even having basic respite most of the time let alone being enabled to study or work (as they should be).

Also pip isn't necessarily to cover care costs. This should really be done by social services. Pip is for the additional expenses being disabled brings, needing extra heating to stay warm, needing specific items/food due to sensory needs, needing taxis if public transport is inaccessible, a cleaner, aids and equipment that won't be funded by any other services but are needed, clubs and hobbies if these are difficult to access and extra support is needed or it helps the person access the community etc

@BlueBlubbaWhale

She's asleep 18 per day apparently. Given what the op's posts state she is actually able to do, I'm not sure what other than the standard parental roles the DD requires in the 6 hours awake. Isn't it the norm to run about after your kids, cook, heat the home for them etc?
The OP did a training course earlier in the year for a promotion which she did get, so I'm not sure that part of your comment applies here though I'm sure it does generally.

I'm not that ignorant that I haven't read the OP's posts, from them I have gained what I feel is the satisfactory decision that she could, with a bit of gentle help, manage her own funds. I'm not here to bash anyone for getting benefits as I've said previously. I honestly can't fathom why my opinion isn't met with some understanding with the AIBU request. I seem to be constantly told of the generalised way things work with benefit claimants. Not all carers do the same as not all disabilities need the same care - obviously!

Again... it just seems strange to me as I am working to the OPs posts and shan't be backed into a corner and made to think that the way she plans to distribute DD's benefits is right.

I'll leave you to it now, obviously shouldn't have read this thread. It would appear that if you disagree and think OP is being unreasonable, you're wrong!