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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Inclusion policies are not working

629 replies

somewherbetweenHoneyandTrunchbull · 22/09/2023 23:44

I am an experienced teacher. And every year budgets are being cut and more and more children are being chucked into mainstream. Non-verbal, extremely sensitive to noisy kids being put into an overcrowded open plan mainstream school. Some have a little speech but couldn't hold a conversation. Many not toilet trained. Many cannot control their emotions and anger. Some where English isn't a first language. Many with social work involvement and living through ongoing trauma at home.
Meanwhile support staff numbers are being cut, year on year.
I had been managing just about. Spinning many plates. Constantly juggling. But then they enrol another two kids with complex needs into my class on 28 individuals. I just can't do it any more. This week I've been bitten, scratched, hit so hard I thought they had cracked a rib. Violent incident forms all filled in but reality means not much will change as I can't get more that 2 20 minute slots of teaching assistant time each week.
I love my job. I love the kids. I love those lightbulb moments. But at the moment I can't do my job of teaching children. I can barely keep them and myself safe in my class. I try. I'm exhausted. I'm worn out working day and night so that I'm super organised so everything can go smoothly but it never does. If it was just one child having a meltdown I probably coolyld cope. I just do t know which firework will go off when. I don't know what is setting them off and once they go, others follow.
I cry most days at how hopeless it feels. I have some really bright and eager children too. They are also being let down by this system. I'm not sure who the current education policies help. It doesn't seem to help anyone except desensitising children to daily bouts of violence and the language.
I'm very broken tonight. I'm so sleepy but won't help x

OP posts:
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Caffeinequeen91 · 23/09/2023 00:08

It helps the people who control the purse strings. We know what helps children. It’s not a mysterious secret. The government just doesn’t want to fund it.

from an ex-teacher who left after being bruised (physically and emotionally) by children failed by a mainstream approach so much that there was less of me for my own children (repairing and reversing that now).

as more teachers leave more people will realise how broken the system is.

DivingForLove · 23/09/2023 00:11

Another one here who left because the system is broken and it broke me.

I don’t know what the answer is but it’s not this 😢

UsingChangeofName · 23/09/2023 01:02

You are absolutely spot on with your descriptions.

There are so, so many dc with incredibly significant needs just being shoved in to mainstream classes that will not benefit them in any way, just to save money.
I think unless you work in Early Years or Primary schools, you really have no idea of the huge numbers of dc that this is happening to.
The Gvmnt and LAs talk about "the parents' right to choose mainstream" - seemingly not understanding the concept of a choice means that there has to be at least one other option. None of the parents I work with want mainstream. You can't "choose" if there are no special school places Hmm . But, of course, giving these children the resources they need, costs a lot more money, than pretending any objection is "schools not being inclusive" suits the narrative. It has NOTHING to do with meeting the child's needs and of course, is just another reason teachers are leaving in their droves.

KeepTheTempo · 23/09/2023 01:12

Yes. None of the politicians - nor most of us parents - would accept a workplace where we are at risk of being physically attacked every day, let alone the other stresses.

Yet teachers and our own kids have to face this. My very gentle 7 year old got attacked on their second day back at school. Same kid who's been attacking the others, and the teachers, for 4 years now, but we were told it was all going to be different with a full time 1:1. My DC asks why I can't help, and it's so hard. There are no decent local schools with spaces, other kids happy, as a single parent I can't manage 2 dropoffs on other sides of town. And even if I did, might be the same situation there.

SparkleBubble · 23/09/2023 01:48

Is it mainstream that's the problem, or is it the lack of support?

We have a tiny number of special schools were I live (and none in my region) so most children go to their local mainstream school.

ChallengeAnneka · 23/09/2023 02:03

What a mess it all is. Thank you to all who teach, classroom assistants, for what you do or used to do.

Caffeinequeen91 · 23/09/2023 07:49

@SparkleBubble for some children with SEND inclusion in the mainstream is very successful and positive for all. It is my experiences with aggressive and violent children (young ages early years and primary) that drove me out along with excessive workload. As @KeepTheTempo even getting a 1:1 TA isn’t a magic wand and doesn’t stop the violence and aggression. There is no place for this in mainstream in my opinion and I would take a much firmer stance against violence at school (which is the staff’s workplace of course).

Caffeinequeen91 · 23/09/2023 07:51

And those children are often violent and aggressive because their needs cannot be met in a mainstream class of 30 without specialist staff and resources. I am not blaming the children. I am blaming the system and our politicians.

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 23/09/2023 07:56

You poor thing, and those poor children (the ones whose additional needs are not being met, and the other ones who are also losing out on a decent education because of violence and disruption in their lessons). Unfortunately, all teachers can do is vote with their feet and hope that eventually something will have to be done. I am lucky to work in a school that doesn't have anything like that level of problems. I would certainly quit teaching rather than work in those conditions, even though it's the only job I ever wanted to do.

Sirzy · 23/09/2023 07:59

The problem is we have a system which doesn’t allow for the individuals needs to be properly met. To come close to being able to you need parents who know how to fight the system and get everything in place, but things are designed to fail so many fall through the net. (This isn’t a dig at parents in any way. It’s a dig at the system)

inclusion can work well if it’s the right setting with the right support but too often that doesn’t happen.

Redlocks28 · 23/09/2023 08:01

I completely agree. If you look on the Exit the classroom Facebook group-there are thousands of people who also feel the same way and have voted with their feet.

Inclusion doesn’t work if if it comes with no funding; it just means that everyone misses out. You can’t teach proper lessons with 2 children in nappies, 2 with unmedicated ADHD, 3 with ASD, one with a VI and one who is PEG fed with ‘a bit of extra LSA time between 10-12’.

Government ministers will never use state mainstream school like this for their child, so don’t give a shit.

The DfE plan to solve the recruitment and retention crisis is to have a huge workload team to try to find ways to cut 5 hours workload a week. This team is full of academy CEOs-I’m not sure if there is one classroom teacher amongst them. The findings will probably be something like, ‘work smarter, not harder’ and that’ll be that…

I don’t know a single teacher who doesn’t want to leave-it shouldn’t be like this. I loved teaching so much when I first started. The job is simply unrecognisable from then.

JT69 · 23/09/2023 08:03

This in spades. I’m the TA trying to support high needs children along with class responsibilities and supporting all the children in class. It’s not fair on the children or us. And I’m heading towards leaving , it’s stressful and I’m not supported (just pulled up on why stuff isn’t getting done) I’m lucky I don’t have any violence issues this year but have been battered daily in the past. The system is broken.

Pollyputhekettleon · 23/09/2023 08:04

Can you move to a school that has far fewer of those children? Or where management is better at protecting their staff?

If teaching were a male-dominated profession, the government would be paying out huge sums of money in compensation for permitting assault and an unsafe working environment that damages teacher's mental health. Teacher's unions would be on semi-permanent strike.

MidnightOnceMore · 23/09/2023 08:08

The lack of funding is awful, it's just awful for parents of children who need the support (and the children of course!) and it makes things hard for everyone in school.

This government have systematically dismantled and undermined state education. It makes me furious..

Elisheva · 23/09/2023 08:08

It’s utterly ridiculous. I work across several schools and the range and severity of needs that they are now supposed to accommodate is unmanageable. One of my schools have five new starters in year R with EHCPs, all of whom need 1:1 support, toileting, support with feeding, medication, OT, physio, speech therapy. None of them are talking yet. Their needs simply cannot be met in a mainstream setting, it doesn’t matter how many adaptations are put into place.
When people are considering placing a child in mainstream they only look at their needs, and assume that ever other child in the class are typically developing, but that’s not the case.
My favourite was a class with a ‘classically’ autistic child and a child with a PDA profile. The teacher was told during annual reviews that she had to have a predictable classroom with routines and clear instructions and expectations for child A, and a laid back, low demand approach for child B with flexibility and a willingness to abandon routines if necessary. When she pointed out that she couldn’t do both she was told that the annual review was to meet the child’s needs and other children weren’t relevant to the process. She left.

thirdistheonewiththehairychest · 23/09/2023 08:09

You sound like me two years ago. I couldn't teach, I could only do my best to keep everyone safe. This was in a reception class.

In my heart I wanted to be a part of the change that is needed in education, but in my head I knew I was powerless to do jack-all and that I needed to put my own sanity and safety first.

I'm now halfway to becoming a chartered accountant instead.

EllasGuitar · 23/09/2023 08:10

There are unprecedented numbers of children with SEND in Early Years at the moment and the Government will not acknowledge this cohort of kids. Inclusion budgets have not increased for years, there’s not enough specialist provision and forcing children with high needs into mainstream schooling does not work in the majority of cases.
It’s a massive problem and it’s only going to get worse.

Vinvertebrate · 23/09/2023 08:10

As a parent of one of the ASC children who can be violent when dysregulated, I am doing everything in my power to get DS out of mainstream. I am ignored and patronized by the LA despite complaining constantly and hassling them on a daily basis. They just won’t do anything because inaction is cheap. There are no winners.

Potaitapotartaproata · 23/09/2023 08:10

I left in 2022. It got to the point where I hated my job.

The job I loved, the job I gave hours and hours of my time for, weekends, evenings, days off, all unpaid. I did it because I loved it. I paid for resources out of my own pocket. I did it because I loved it.

I ended up needing counselling. It's taken a year to see the light. To realise just how exhausted, stressed, depressed and anxious I'd become. How I was living less than half a life.

I had no life. Work and recover. That was the cycle.

The counselling not only dealt with the loss of love for and my career but also the loss of time with my own children.

It's just not worth it.

The system is failing everyone.

Totaly · 23/09/2023 08:11

I agree. I was there 9 months ago and left, speaking to still teaching friends - it’s got worse. Kids have no self regulation trashing their classrooms, hours of teaching lost as the teacher unpicks the incident. Kids left with the TA unable to do the work of 2 people and are expected to teach and keep other SEN kids safe.

Please stand up teachers and say ‘no more’

Caffeinequeen91 · 23/09/2023 08:15

@Pollyputhekettleon in primary schools you will often find the ‘management’ are also being hurt by violent children. There isn’t much a school can do when the pressure is on to not exclude and to use restrictive physical intervention (restraint) to manage situations when de escalation hasn’t worked. When we are told that the violence is part of their special needs we are expected to manage it (put up with it). I think it’s very hard to fully comprehend how awful the situation is until you’ve been in a class of 30 5 year olds with a violent child causing fear, chaos and stress (and you’re supposed to be you know teaching a curriculum!). When there is no money in the budget for extra staff (and even if there was you would just be putting a low paid TA in the way of kicks, punches and worse) and there are no special school places (and even if there are you’re looking at at least a year of jumping through hoops to get the child moved and you’re going to get nowhere if the parents are determined to keep the child in mainstream).

I think you’re right that if primary education was male dominated we wouldn’t be in this position.

TaytoCheeseandOnion · 23/09/2023 08:15

I am a parent of one of those kids. Bright, loves school but currently incapable of managing interactions with other kids without exploding. I have had to come and collect her on several occasions and have seen the injuries she has inflicted on teachers. I cant tell you the shame.

The school have been amazing, plans in place to avoid triggers, lots of 121 support and adjustments in place. We are accessing therapy and she is recently medicated for adhd. We really hope this will improve, but the reality is other children are her major trigger and she is in a class of 30. I would be open to another setting, but you need an EHCP for that to even be considered. We are now in the process of applying. If an alternative provision is recommended i think there is next to a zero percent chance we will get it.

The staff have been so amazing to us and our girl. I have such incredible admiration for them. Noone should be coming home from working nursing injuries.

Greenberg2 · 23/09/2023 08:17

I don't really understand how inclusion helps anyone, even the children who are supposed to be included. Surely a child that has special needs that are significant enough that they cannot follow the curriculum will not benefit from being in a traditional classroom setting?

As PPs have indicated, it's about saving money, not about the welfare of the children. A child that is getting the right support in a dedicated setting is almost certainly going to be happier than someone thrown into an inappropriate school, set up for children with different needs.

I feel so sorry for the staff having to manage this.

StrawberrySquash · 23/09/2023 08:18

YANBU. It's not okay, for the teachers, the staff, the kids who need help, and the rest of the kids.

Mumofsend · 23/09/2023 08:18

UsingChangeofName · 23/09/2023 01:02

You are absolutely spot on with your descriptions.

There are so, so many dc with incredibly significant needs just being shoved in to mainstream classes that will not benefit them in any way, just to save money.
I think unless you work in Early Years or Primary schools, you really have no idea of the huge numbers of dc that this is happening to.
The Gvmnt and LAs talk about "the parents' right to choose mainstream" - seemingly not understanding the concept of a choice means that there has to be at least one other option. None of the parents I work with want mainstream. You can't "choose" if there are no special school places Hmm . But, of course, giving these children the resources they need, costs a lot more money, than pretending any objection is "schools not being inclusive" suits the narrative. It has NOTHING to do with meeting the child's needs and of course, is just another reason teachers are leaving in their droves.

This. I "chose" mainstream for my complex needs, can be challenging 8 year old because there were no suitable specialist schools. She does have an adult full time on a 1-1 basis and her school are really really good with her but we had to fight hard for the funding. They receive 28k per year for her.

Her 6 year old (year 2) brother is also classed as high needs (has an EHCP too) and is in mainstream but mainstream is actually suitable for him. He doesn't have challenging behaviour but does have autism, adhd, speech disorder, fully in nappies. No chance of adequate funding for him. He does have an adult in his class at all times but she does have to do far more juggling as she also needs to support the sen support children.

The situation in mainstreams is awful.

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