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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Inclusion policies are not working

629 replies

somewherbetweenHoneyandTrunchbull · 22/09/2023 23:44

I am an experienced teacher. And every year budgets are being cut and more and more children are being chucked into mainstream. Non-verbal, extremely sensitive to noisy kids being put into an overcrowded open plan mainstream school. Some have a little speech but couldn't hold a conversation. Many not toilet trained. Many cannot control their emotions and anger. Some where English isn't a first language. Many with social work involvement and living through ongoing trauma at home.
Meanwhile support staff numbers are being cut, year on year.
I had been managing just about. Spinning many plates. Constantly juggling. But then they enrol another two kids with complex needs into my class on 28 individuals. I just can't do it any more. This week I've been bitten, scratched, hit so hard I thought they had cracked a rib. Violent incident forms all filled in but reality means not much will change as I can't get more that 2 20 minute slots of teaching assistant time each week.
I love my job. I love the kids. I love those lightbulb moments. But at the moment I can't do my job of teaching children. I can barely keep them and myself safe in my class. I try. I'm exhausted. I'm worn out working day and night so that I'm super organised so everything can go smoothly but it never does. If it was just one child having a meltdown I probably coolyld cope. I just do t know which firework will go off when. I don't know what is setting them off and once they go, others follow.
I cry most days at how hopeless it feels. I have some really bright and eager children too. They are also being let down by this system. I'm not sure who the current education policies help. It doesn't seem to help anyone except desensitising children to daily bouts of violence and the language.
I'm very broken tonight. I'm so sleepy but won't help x

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
Macaroni46 · 23/09/2023 08:21

All of the above is why I left teaching. I'm now sleeping properly, exercising daily and losing weight. I feel so much better mentally and physically.
The decision to leave the profession broke my heart. I loved teaching. But in the end it broke me. Facing the level of unmet need on a daily basis, knowing I was failing the SEND pupils (of which there was always several) as well as the 'NT' ones (in my mind, every child is an individual with individual needs). Add to that the pressure of trying to deliver a curriculum unfit for purpose and overfull and unrelenting paperwork. I was working longer and longer hours and was so miserable. I can't tell you the relief I feel at having left. But also immense sadness as I only ever wanted to be a teacher. But my health has to come first.

itsgettingweird · 23/09/2023 08:21

I work in a special school.

I agree 100%.

We take in children who have come from MS 2:1 and don't access learning in to an environment where the curriculum is geared to their needs and they have a peer group.

It's only when they transfer to us they become truly included into a classroom and learning environment.

I've always said "inclusion isn't the issue. It's people misunderstanding what inclusion is and looks like".

It's not fair on the pupil and it's them that should be at the heart of decisions not someone's idea that they would be better off in mainstream school.

Pollyputhekettleon · 23/09/2023 08:22

Caffeinequeen91 · 23/09/2023 08:15

@Pollyputhekettleon in primary schools you will often find the ‘management’ are also being hurt by violent children. There isn’t much a school can do when the pressure is on to not exclude and to use restrictive physical intervention (restraint) to manage situations when de escalation hasn’t worked. When we are told that the violence is part of their special needs we are expected to manage it (put up with it). I think it’s very hard to fully comprehend how awful the situation is until you’ve been in a class of 30 5 year olds with a violent child causing fear, chaos and stress (and you’re supposed to be you know teaching a curriculum!). When there is no money in the budget for extra staff (and even if there was you would just be putting a low paid TA in the way of kicks, punches and worse) and there are no special school places (and even if there are you’re looking at at least a year of jumping through hoops to get the child moved and you’re going to get nowhere if the parents are determined to keep the child in mainstream).

I think you’re right that if primary education was male dominated we wouldn’t be in this position.

It's not the staff's problem if management also refuse to protect themselves. I don't understand why that should stop teachers from suing them. The pressures forcing teachers to put up with this abuse would change in a hurry if teachers as a group would be a little, ok a lot, less understanding and empathic of everyone else and a lot more compassionate towards themselves and their colleagues. Same for the parents of children being assaulted in these environments. Compassion is incredibly easy to manipulate.

MidnightOnceMore · 23/09/2023 08:23

Greenberg2 · 23/09/2023 08:17

I don't really understand how inclusion helps anyone, even the children who are supposed to be included. Surely a child that has special needs that are significant enough that they cannot follow the curriculum will not benefit from being in a traditional classroom setting?

As PPs have indicated, it's about saving money, not about the welfare of the children. A child that is getting the right support in a dedicated setting is almost certainly going to be happier than someone thrown into an inappropriate school, set up for children with different needs.

I feel so sorry for the staff having to manage this.

Inclusion with proper funding can be such a positive. We should seek to be inclusive where it benefits those involved.

The issue is not the policy but rather the last 13 years of constant education budget reductions.

Mumofsend · 23/09/2023 08:25

Greenberg2 · 23/09/2023 08:17

I don't really understand how inclusion helps anyone, even the children who are supposed to be included. Surely a child that has special needs that are significant enough that they cannot follow the curriculum will not benefit from being in a traditional classroom setting?

As PPs have indicated, it's about saving money, not about the welfare of the children. A child that is getting the right support in a dedicated setting is almost certainly going to be happier than someone thrown into an inappropriate school, set up for children with different needs.

I feel so sorry for the staff having to manage this.

It's a weird one. My complex needs/challenging child is actually academically ridiculously capable. Greater depth accross the board. However, she has no social skills, no social awareness, no friends. She sticks out like a sore thumb in class whether she's happy or cross. She has no concept of anything socially. She can almost memorise what she's taught but can't apply it to practice - the time is a really good example of this. She can do the work sheets but show her a clock in real life and no clue. Her ideal school would be silent and just back to back learning from text books. When her behaviour is challenging 98% of the time it's because others aren't doing what they should be doing. She got really upset yesterday as the teacher asked them to line up for break, the others were messing around. She can't cope with it.

There are very few places, and in many areas such as ours, for children who can actually access the curriculum but just can't cope with the social elements and classroom environment. Even our academically capable specialist secondary choices (there are 2) offer a maximum of 6 GCSEs. These are the core ones.

There are lots of grey areas where children just don't fit into any setting so it's the least bad situation chosen.

itsgettingweird · 23/09/2023 08:26

I should caveat the above with - I don't think every child who has SEND should be in SS.

My own ds went to MS with an EHCP but he could access learning with support and he had a peer group.

But there is a HUGE increase of pupils who cannot access the MS education even with support (if you can get the support in the first place). They often end up on reduced timetables and/or excluded and that's not for on them, their families or the staff that feel the guilt for failing them.

We always hear how early intervention is the key and yet we ignore that and wait until a crisis evolves and try and relate the damage rather than prevent it.

(By we I mean as a country rather than personally)

Neolara · 23/09/2023 08:26

I think it can work if inclusion is properly funded. But the government has cut school budgets for years. Schools must agree a balanced budget and the only way many schools can achieve this is by cutting support staff. So it's then often only one class teacher to meet the needs of everyone in the class. It's an impossible job.

And because the only way for schools to get any extra support now is to apply for an ehcp, the support services (which previously used to be able to provide early intervention support to teachers) are now almost entirely tied up in costly, bureaucratic assessments. As a result, they are unable to get into schools to offer actual practical support that helps teachers cope.

It's utterly shit. I say this as someone who until very recently worked for a local authority supporting children with SEND. The job is now so awful and depressing that almost three quarters of the team have left, including me.

Highlyflavouredgravy · 23/09/2023 08:27

I agree with everything you have said.
What I don't understand is why we have such huge numbers of children with such high needs. What is causing this explosion in numbers? Is it because we now have the technology to keep very premature babies alive? Is it pollution? Vaccines? What? I've been doing this job a long time and 15 years ago we had nowhere near the numbers we do now.

Redlocks28 · 23/09/2023 08:31

They receive 28k per year for her.

Wow-I can tell you it is nothing like that in my LA. The highest banding that can be allocated to us in mainstream is £10000 (then we have to put £6000 in on top). This probably would have paid for full time support when the CoP came in and banding set up in 2015 but hasn’t changed since so would not cover full time hours now with wage increases.

Redlocks28 · 23/09/2023 08:32

Is it because we now have the technology to keep very premature babies alive?

That is likely to be a factor-high numbers of our SEN children were prem.

PixiePirate · 23/09/2023 08:34

I can 100% relate to your experience. We (mainstream) have several children in each year group whose needs have been deemed too complex for special schools. 10% of our multi-class reception cohort are in nappies. A further 5% are completely non-verbal. Many more diagnosed with ASD or other SEND. Several with very severe allergies. Just trying to keep children and staff safe is just so, so difficult. The system is broken.

feralunderclass · 23/09/2023 08:34

Greenberg2 · 23/09/2023 08:17

I don't really understand how inclusion helps anyone, even the children who are supposed to be included. Surely a child that has special needs that are significant enough that they cannot follow the curriculum will not benefit from being in a traditional classroom setting?

As PPs have indicated, it's about saving money, not about the welfare of the children. A child that is getting the right support in a dedicated setting is almost certainly going to be happier than someone thrown into an inappropriate school, set up for children with different needs.

I feel so sorry for the staff having to manage this.

You do realize that not all dc with SEN are aggressive, violent, in nappies, PEG fed or in wheelchairs? And you really can't see why inclusion helps anyone? God forbid your dc might be exposed to a child with Downs syndrome or dyslexia 😵
I'm personally shocked by the OP. I have one dc who is severely disabled and another with ASD and I have been in parent support groups for many years. I have never, ever heard of children with such significant needs not having a full time 1:1. I have heard of such children with full time funding being at home for 2 years because the LA can't find a school who will take them.
Every child has the right to an education. Teachers (who I have every sympathy for) can vote with their feet, but these dc literally have no choice, and as a parent who is aware that the teacher would rather not have my dc in their school it is utterly heartbreaking.

Pollyputhekettleon · 23/09/2023 08:36

PixiePirate · 23/09/2023 08:34

I can 100% relate to your experience. We (mainstream) have several children in each year group whose needs have been deemed too complex for special schools. 10% of our multi-class reception cohort are in nappies. A further 5% are completely non-verbal. Many more diagnosed with ASD or other SEND. Several with very severe allergies. Just trying to keep children and staff safe is just so, so difficult. The system is broken.

The children seem to be broken too and from very young ages. On early years childcare threads staff are reporting the same things - massive increases in children with severe problems in the last 10 years but an explosion in the last 5.

Redlocks28 · 23/09/2023 08:37

I have never, ever heard of children with such significant needs not having a full time 1:1.

You clearly haven’t been in many reception classes in the last three weeks. It’s a massive problem that is not going to go away.

Elisheva · 23/09/2023 08:37

I have never, ever heard of children with such significant needs not having a full time 1:1.
Happens all the time. And for many 1:1 is not enough, what happens when they need toileting?

RunningUpThatBuilding · 23/09/2023 08:37

This is one of the reasons I left teaching.

Inclusion as it stands now in schools is an illusion. Anyone who thinks that because X child is physically in a class with mainstream children that they are being “included” is woefully ignorant.

Mumofsend · 23/09/2023 08:39

Highlyflavouredgravy · 23/09/2023 08:27

I agree with everything you have said.
What I don't understand is why we have such huge numbers of children with such high needs. What is causing this explosion in numbers? Is it because we now have the technology to keep very premature babies alive? Is it pollution? Vaccines? What? I've been doing this job a long time and 15 years ago we had nowhere near the numbers we do now.

I think early intervention across the board has been so decimated that the problems escalate. I had an almighty argument re my 6YOs SALT. He wasn't seen for 2 years due to Covid. Then they tried to just strip it from his EHCP as he wasn't making fast enough progress. I had to appeal to get it back but this left him without for a further 10 months. Children with significant speech and language problems are known to have lower reading attainment and far more likely to have social and emotional difficulties. For him, he has acutely aware he can't speak properly and if has had a huge effect on his self esteem. If he had received early intervention appropriately he could have potentially resolved his speech difficulties before school, would have had more chance to keep on track with reading and not been so socially isolated. He now needs reading interventions which cost more and need staff, he needs play ground support and social interventions. It all needs more help and it could have been supported before he ever stepped foot in a school.

We've found quite consistently that the attitude of the NHS has been they won't do anything because school can do support instead.

Same 6 YO is doubly incontinent. He can't feel the need to go. Continence service wouldn't support until he'd had his asd and adhd assessment. Then when he had those diagnoses we were told "it's just part of his asd". We take him to the GP and they shrug their shoulders and say he appears energetic and healthy, it isn't a medical concern. We are all 100% convinced this is a medical issue as we have tried everything. School have tried everything too so it isn't just me being lazy. The complete absence of medical support means we are stuck and it's another need that needs school support.

Behavioural problems, before you'd have parenting support at home. This doesn't happen. The behaviour problems transfer to school and escalates and any prospect of parenting support is years down the line.

spanieleyes · 23/09/2023 08:39

We have had to evacuate two separate classrooms this week as children were throwing tables and chairs and were a danger to the other children. One has ADHD but the other does not- we have tried to get a diagnosis but not succeeded. Neither has an EHCP- tried that too. One becomes unregulated very quickly, throws tables and chairs but then calms down quickly with the support in place ( calming environment, dark den, ) but this means taking support from other children who also needs it. The other spends most of the day rolling around on the floor yelling and screaming when asked to do the simplest of things, he cannot cope with the other children at all and regularly hits staff when they try to get between him and the other children. We don't have the staff , resources or expertise to deal with either, but there is nowhere else for them to go. Our county has a " no expulsion " policy, we are just expected to cope.
We can't.

Ylvamoon · 23/09/2023 08:39

Not much to add, but as a parent who's children have been affected by the inclusion policy, I can see how difficult, unfair and traumatic this policy is.

But sadly, us parents are not allowed or able to speak out. Unless our children are actually physically attacked (numerous times in the case of DS).
But if its just disruption to learning we have no voice and our children are meant to suffer in silence.

Neolara · 23/09/2023 08:41

Redlocks28 · 23/09/2023 08:32

Is it because we now have the technology to keep very premature babies alive?

That is likely to be a factor-high numbers of our SEN children were prem.

Yes. This is a contributing factor. Usually, there aren't many special school spaces in each local authority. So even a very slight improvement in survival rates for prem babies who often have significant SEND, means extra demand for special school spaces. Consequently, kids who 5 years ago would have had places in special school, now have to be educated in mainstream.

Government policy until very recently (this year?) has been than local authorities are not allowed to set up their own schools .Only academy chains could do this, or schools could set themselves up. As a result, local authorities have not been able to set up new special schools, even when they knew there was a need. Is a total shit show of the government's making.

Mumofsend · 23/09/2023 08:42

Redlocks28 · 23/09/2023 08:31

They receive 28k per year for her.

Wow-I can tell you it is nothing like that in my LA. The highest banding that can be allocated to us in mainstream is £10000 (then we have to put £6000 in on top). This probably would have paid for full time support when the CoP came in and banding set up in 2015 but hasn’t changed since so would not cover full time hours now with wage increases.

It took her school launching legal action against the LA and me standing firm on her right to be there. We did communicate with each other and they knew my stance and I knew in advance what they were going to do. She is a good example of a child who properly funded can receive a mainstream education, doesn't impact the others but it definitely isn't true inclusion, she's whipped out the moment she gets tetchy, and its obviously expensive.

itsgettingweird · 23/09/2023 08:45

Almahart · 23/09/2023 08:33

The government is using a private consultancy firm to reduce new EHCPs by 20% in 55 local authorities. It is absolutely horrifying. Revealed: covert deal to cut help for pupils in England with special needs | UK news | The Guardian

I was horrified when I first read that a few weeks ago.

However the plan is to make schools meet need for send pupils as the norm so echps aren't needed to "provide more than is us usually available".

On paper it looks like a positive move to avoid needing to send children to independent schools after years of education failure.

What I don't believe for a millisecond is that the government will fund this properly (if at all because you won't save money cutting echps just save bureaucracy) and if they put these measures in place BEFORE they start deciding not to fund echps and private placements.

That includes paying staff properly and aforesaid g the recruitment and retention problems they have as a result.

Plus my cynical kind thinking it's only because they have no mates in the private send education world to line them pockets of and donate to them.

Can you tell my opinion of current governments ability to actually run an education system?!

RavingStone · 23/09/2023 08:46

itsgettingweird · 23/09/2023 08:21

I work in a special school.

I agree 100%.

We take in children who have come from MS 2:1 and don't access learning in to an environment where the curriculum is geared to their needs and they have a peer group.

It's only when they transfer to us they become truly included into a classroom and learning environment.

I've always said "inclusion isn't the issue. It's people misunderstanding what inclusion is and looks like".

It's not fair on the pupil and it's them that should be at the heart of decisions not someone's idea that they would be better off in mainstream school.

Came here to say the same.

I think it's also been a problem since before the huge financial issues. Sometimes there is unprocessed grief around the child's special needs, a feeling that the child ought to be accepted by the mainstream school and peers.

And if course that is true, mainstream society very much ought to be far more accepting of children with special needs. But "inclusion" as it currently runs means essentially excluding kids with additional needs from having a genuine peer group and from having education delivered in a way which meets their needs.

Meaningful inclusion could mean partnerships between special schools and mainstream, sharing of sites, facilities and events for example.

KnittedCardi · 23/09/2023 08:47

Can I ask a genuine question? Way back, these kids were in separate provision. Did it work better? The move at the time was that parents wanted inclusion not exclusion, but has this turned out to be a failed policy. Other countries seem to have hybrid systems where kids are often on the same site, but in separate classrooms. Surely that would be a better solution for all.

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