AIBU to think that the Tories are utterly wicked to drop net zero?

[Upsizer]

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/sep/19/rishi-sunak-planning-drop-net-zero-policies-pre-election-challenge-labour

I think this is genuinely wicked but I guess it was inevitable with the easiness of drumming up a culture war over environmental issues to win votes. Environment is the new Brexit.

Fighting climate change is going to cost all of us thousands of pounds. So we won’t do it - to get votes.

Our children will live on an island suffering extremes of heat and fighting off refugees from uninhabitable parts of the world.

But it will save us some cash I guess.

AIBU to think this is wicked?

Yes, we have been falling for some time but, falling is relative to a few other countries finally taking things as seriously as we have.

Sunak changed track yesterday, to think it is not going to have an impact on the UK’s green credentials is naive and it's credibility on the international stage is diminished.

Everyone is looking at their own path at this point rather than eyeing up the UK

An example of this self appraisal Starmer rocked up to EU on returns agreement to which they said we’ve got our own problems forget it (deluded I think was added).

There’s a tendency to put U.K. far more at centre of everyone’s thinking than we actually are.

I’d also keep an eye out for Trump if he wins. That could be problematic, due to scale

Basically everyone is up against it to deliver, and keep citizens happy and deal with impacts such as people movement

I’m actually not entirely pessimistic though as in other areas changes are happening

Insulation, Insulation, Insulation is genius and should be Labour’s next campaign slogan. I am not kidding. Ordinary people need politics to give them hope that this outrageous cost of living misery will pass and that the (future, Labour) government understands how shit it is really is out there for us and will help.

Energy security is keeping gas stores, that were shut down. We can't even do sewerage, or water storage right.

Not sure why China is always getting the blame, yeah it's a big country with a huge populous, but it has a pretty wicked renewable energy policy. Ahead of target too. World leading etc.

Manufactured goods from there, end up here. It's not as if the UK isn't complicit!

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/29/china-wind-solar-power-global-renewable-energy-leader

*Posters should be able to substantiate their claims surely? how else can there be a debate, we can all make stuff.

If you could just come up with a few examples of UK world leading decarbonisation and renewable tech companies, it would be great to hear of our successes in this area.*

So the phrase "since you spend your evenings interviewing fund managers" wasn't snide? Right....

My substantiation was that a number of fund managers told me that when I was interviewing them. I very much doubt they made it up (not least as it's a highly regulated sector). Funds typically only publish their top ten holdings for obvious reasons, but even if they did, frankly I'm not going to go through each of their top tens to see if their holdings in U.K. clean tech businesses are in this list.

And yes I was absolutely making a broader point beyond renewables and net zero related businesses, The U.K. is home to a number of very successful global companies in a range of sectors. Admittedly I work in investing so that's a distinct angle but some of the doom-mongering posts about U.K. corporates on MN don't tally with my view, nor that of a number of analysts and asset managers.

This doesn't tally up with people reporting their energy bills being 3x higher on an ASHP.

Interesting detail re loading cost onto electricity, I wasn't aware of this. I am trying to get my head around why they would do this and not load it into gas costs, do you know why it is done that way?

No it isn't being snide...... You said "i spent an evening interviewing global fund managers.." i didn't make that up!! and neither did i deny that the UK hasn't got some excellent world leading tech companies e.g ARM but i don't think we are one of the worlds top destinations for Green Investment, which you now appear to agree with.

The UK Govt just isn't investing in this sector like the USA China or the EU are and have been.

An example of this self appraisal Starmer rocked up to EU on returns agreement to which they said we’ve got our own problems forget it (deluded I think was added)

Just one MEP said this, you ve completely twisted that :( Macron on the other hand... we do not yet know but he seems to be looking at EU associate membership, a sort of EFTA i guess?

A returns agreement is most definitely on the cards and unless we get one, many of the '000s cross the Med will be heading here, so we have to try plus far better cross channel security, with the UK back in EU criminal set ups.

Its the only way, Sunaks ideas have fallen flat, no Rwanda and no barges... he has no plan what so ever.

It ain’t going to happen. They have their own pressures with infighting and thousands arriving in Lampedusa daily

Why on Earth would they help the U.K. out with returns

Deluded as the response wasn’t surprising.

It’s completely unrelated to EU expanding to a SM. Which has been ruled out consistently by Labour anyway

On another location being set up, we’ll see perhaps some have missed the next court date

On investment in renewable energy market this puts us at fourth

https://www.consultancy.eu/news/amp/8362/the-most-attractive-markets-for-renewable-energy-investment

This is simply not true. At all.

Yep just had ASHP installed and can confirm that it total bollocks. Most of our costs were covered by the government grant. Some radiators needed replacing but no pipework. UFH heating an option which we decided against.
Toastier house, lower bills, not a big
palaver at all, all happy.

Re: why would you load policy costs onto electricity bills and not at all onto gas bills? : I have no idea. It is ridiculous. The result is an artificially high unit price for electricity.

Similarly ridiculous is the fact that government policy means our electricity price is fixed by the price of gas, totally ignoring the very, very much cheaper cost of the renewable electricity that actually provides 40% of our electricity.

Again, why? Why would you design such a daft system? Why wouldn’t you design a price peg that actually reflected the generation cost of the stuff you are using?

It makes an awful lot of money for some companies, at the expense of us bill payers. Government is supposed to act in the interests of the bill payers, but I think we all know that isn’t how the current lot operate. At all.

The price of electricity isn’t fixed by the price of gas, it is affected by the price of gas because we still burn alot of gas to generate electricity. It also costs money to convert gas to electricity- infrastructure, labour, etc.

Why wouldn’t you design a price peg that actually reflected the generation cost of the stuff you are using?

That is exactly what we have. Electricity would be much more expensive if it were not for our renewables.

Also: which people report bills 3x higher on air source heat pumps? Nobody I know has had that experience.

There’s a surprising amount of total misinformation spread about on how difficult and problematic they are- but talk to people who actually have them and the reality is completely undramatic and boringly positive.

“I spent £500 to get a heat pump installed and it works just fine” is just never going to make a Daily Mail headline I suppose.

It’s all here, types and costs etc

https://energysavingtrust.org.uk/energy-at-home/heating-your-home/heat-pumps/

The above link from the EST makes it clear: a heat pump for your heating will cost the same as or less to run than existing heating systems:

What date is that graph from? I cannot find it on the webpage.

Energy savings trust says this
”For people using gas boilers (not LPG or oil boilers), heat pumps are likely to be slightly more expensive to run unless particular attention is paid to ensuring maximum efficiency of the heat pump in the heating system by using best practice radiator / underfloor heating design.”
https://energysavingtrust.org.uk/advice/in-depth-guide-to-heat-pumps/

I simply clicked on the link posted by Eastern Standard, and then clicked the info on ASHPs, and copied the table for ease of observation.

Surprised you couldn’t see it, i was looking about 1 min ago!

My thoughts very succinctly expressed !

I have a feeling this policy may win the Tories another 4 years.

It is high time for a change, but Labour aren't reading the room on this issue.

Thank you! I was on general heat pump page and didn’t know where to go from there. I did a search and nothing came up.

The chart is as of July 2023. Good to know.

So if you currently have a new gas boiler you will possibly save £8 per year??? Am I reading that right????

As it happens though, when I type the specific details of my home into the home energy Scotland website it tells me I’ll be making a monthly loss.

I am totally pro heat pump but surely that demonstrates that there is a serious problem for getting people to install them?