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Russell Brand - everyone knew

1000 replies

Mooshamoo · 18/09/2023 17:06

I was watching the comedian Katherine Ryan say to Louis theroux that a British comedian is a sexual perpetrator. It is now believed that she was talking about Russell brand. She said on the video "when it eventually comes out about these type of people, Harvey Weinstein, Bill Cosby, this unmentionable British personality, it turns out that everyone knew. Everyone knew. ".

I was wondering did anyone on here on mumsnet know anything about Russell brand? A lot of us lived in London when her was living there. And many women on here would have been a similar age to Russell brand . I lived in London for a year and I saw Russell brand out on a night out once. That was the extent of it. I was wondering did anyone on here have any experience with him, or know about a friend/acquaintance that had any experiences with him.

OP posts:
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16
hihelenhi · 19/09/2023 09:38

"But ultimately any fan who had consensual sex with him is not a victim. It was so obvious all along he was a sleaze. Regret is not rape."

Good grief. That anyone can still spout this sneering, misogynist crap this in this day and age is astonishing. And the hint there that "most rape accusers are just regretful."

If you willingly sleep with someone, it does NOT mean you have consented to all and any sexual acts with them that they want. How can people not understand this?

And btw, same poster, yes, of course adults can be groomed, they don't have to officially count as "vulnerable". Whole families can be "groomed" by abusers and frequently are in order to get access to what the abuser wants. "Grooming" is about manipulative and coercive behaviour to remove boundaries to what the abuser wants to gain.

A worrying lack of understanding both of coercive control and consent issues here. I'm hoping that one thing that comes out of this is a better public understanding of the issues. The ignorance is depressing.

notlucreziaborgia · 19/09/2023 09:43

Bingbangbongbash · 19/09/2023 09:38

Well aren’t you lucky you have enough of a safety net to trash your career without worrying about eating or paying rent.

For the young adults who have slogged for years to get a foot in the door of a career that offers no job security (all short term contracts with 1 week notice period), no professional development (you have to be lucky enough to find a mentor who will promote you, and you learn on the job - there’s no official training) and is entirely based on word of mouth hiring (so reputation is often more important than skill set, especially on the lower rungs), it isn’t that easy.

Added to that they won’t be believed and even if they are, they are highly replaceable, unlike the ‘talent’ whose name is on the show.

Then you have the degrees of awfulness - a crude comment here or a wink there - report it? It happens to someone else but they seem to be laughing along - do I still report it because it seems wrong? Is it my right to impose my moral standards on someone else’s experience?

These men build up to the rapes and SA, emboldened by getting away with smaller transgressions, but it is not for the young, inexperienced, unworldly runners to have to call it out - there needs to be a top down cultural shift that makes any sort of inappropriate behaviour unacceptable. To do that, the notion of untouchable talent needs to go.

Indeed. It’s not just the threat of ruining your career either, it’s total financial ruination. Based on second or third hand information you have no way of proving. That would put most off sticking their head above the parapet, no matter their morality.

borninthe80esss · 19/09/2023 09:52

SunflowersAndSmellyTrainers · 18/09/2023 18:02

Surely it's a police matter?
Trial by press shouldn't be a thing.

A police force that believe women and prosecute rapists should be a thing.. It's not so it's not surprising women use the press to get themselves heard.

Anonnyno · 19/09/2023 09:55

Orangebadger · 19/09/2023 09:30

Yes according to Daniel Sloss, many female comedians had put jokes about RB with significant implications underlying them in their acts. They were all cancelled with threats of litigation. Yet he can say what he wants. How is anyone given this much power to cancel others while they themselves go so far over the line?

It’s the story of the alt-Right. See also Andrew Tate, Boris Johnson and judges being called “Enemies of the people” when they rule a legal line’s been crossed.

These people make a big deal about “freedom”. In reality, it’s their freedom. Other people’s, not so much.

Whereforartthoudave · 19/09/2023 10:09

‘Much harder time with the women who defend him. Slime ball women... ugh’

same. We all know the stats behind rapes versus reports of rapes, and how many actually go to court and how many of those end in conviction despite the mass of evidence needed to get there in the first place e.

If I was raped tomorrow by a work colleague say, would I report it? Would there be any point? who would believe me, and who would take his side? Who would believe was consensual or ‘rough sex’ if that’s what he claimed?
And what if it was after an event, where we were at a hotel, and there’s been drinks?
Sk we’re we’re both a bit pissed?
what if his mates or other colleagues started defending him because he’s such a ‘lovely guy? And they can’t believe it.

What if he was more senior. Did I have sex to get ahead or impress him. Or was impressed by him then regretted it?

I’m actually gay. Would that even help me? Or would the defence be - she got drunk, had sex with a bloke and regretted it because she’s supposed to be gay…

Women defending him with the obvious weight of evidence saying he’s a sexual predator of the word kind make me feel very queasy.

Merrymouse · 19/09/2023 10:14

Then you have the degrees of awfulness - a crude comment here or a wink there - report it? It happens to someone else but they seem to be laughing along - do I still report it because it seems wrong? Is it my right to impose my moral standards on someone else’s experience?

yes, yes, yes!

Many of the stories aren’t about clear law breaking, but about situations where women were forced to play along because it was all just a joke. (Except if she then tries to set a boundary she can also be blamed for leading him on and not being clear in the first place).

Orangebadger · 19/09/2023 10:16

People keep saying this is a police matter. Yes it absolutely should be a police matter. But do these people criticising trial by media realise what these women were up against? Not only a powerful man with a bottomless pit of money that made him capable of throwing legal threats their way, using the threat of litigation to anyone who dare expose him. But also institutions that were willing do anything to have him as he bought in the money and increased viewing figures ( why people actually wanted to ever watch or listen to him baffles me!) these women would not have stood a chance going to the police with rape allegations. To top that off such a tiny amount of rape allegations even make it to court and then those that do such a pathetic amount are actually convicted.

The misogynistic state of our society that has given RB this platform unfortunately necessitates the media to expose these things. We should be grateful that we have a powerful media that is not silenced.

JamSandle · 19/09/2023 10:21

I had a friend who got Russell's number backstage at a show.

She went to his house once. No sex. But she said his place was full of mirrors.

He used to text her when he was with Katy Perry to ask how she was.

JustMyOpinion25 · 19/09/2023 10:38

Orangebadger · 19/09/2023 10:16

People keep saying this is a police matter. Yes it absolutely should be a police matter. But do these people criticising trial by media realise what these women were up against? Not only a powerful man with a bottomless pit of money that made him capable of throwing legal threats their way, using the threat of litigation to anyone who dare expose him. But also institutions that were willing do anything to have him as he bought in the money and increased viewing figures ( why people actually wanted to ever watch or listen to him baffles me!) these women would not have stood a chance going to the police with rape allegations. To top that off such a tiny amount of rape allegations even make it to court and then those that do such a pathetic amount are actually convicted.

The misogynistic state of our society that has given RB this platform unfortunately necessitates the media to expose these things. We should be grateful that we have a powerful media that is not silenced.

Sadly, there is at least two sides to every situation, plenty of Misandristic people in this world.

It is far from one sided, as difficult as that may seem.

CherryMaDeara · 19/09/2023 10:39

JustMyOpinion25 · 19/09/2023 10:38

Sadly, there is at least two sides to every situation, plenty of Misandristic people in this world.

It is far from one sided, as difficult as that may seem.

Edited

Which woman do you disbelieve and why?

JustMyOpinion25 · 19/09/2023 10:42

CherryMaDeara · 19/09/2023 10:39

Which woman do you disbelieve and why?

Could you be more specific?

CherryMaDeara · 19/09/2023 10:44

JustMyOpinion25 · 19/09/2023 10:42

Could you be more specific?

You said that a lot of women hate men and there are two sides to a story.

So it therefore stands to reason you possibly don't believe one or more of the women who have accused him of rape.

Which one/s do you not believe and why?

JustMyOpinion25 · 19/09/2023 10:50

CherryMaDeara · 19/09/2023 10:44

You said that a lot of women hate men and there are two sides to a story.

So it therefore stands to reason you possibly don't believe one or more of the women who have accused him of rape.

Which one/s do you not believe and why?

I have not seen or heard the full facts, I am Impartial, non judgemental.

I would not jump to conclusions without the facts, that would be in my opinion... Foolish.

squareyedannie · 19/09/2023 10:56

His followers will now be shouting, we told you, he's been silenced!
So many abused live in silence, that is what needs to be addressed.
We should shout it from the fucking rooftops.

greenhydrangea · 19/09/2023 11:03

JustMyOpinion25 · 19/09/2023 10:50

I have not seen or heard the full facts, I am Impartial, non judgemental.

I would not jump to conclusions without the facts, that would be in my opinion... Foolish.

I think the word you are looking for is "ignorant", rather than "impartial" or "nonjudgemental".

JustMyOpinion25 · 19/09/2023 11:06

greenhydrangea · 19/09/2023 11:03

I think the word you are looking for is "ignorant", rather than "impartial" or "nonjudgemental".

Thank you for your judgement on my character.

RedToothBrush · 19/09/2023 11:09

"But ultimately any fan who had consensual sex with him is not a victim. It was so obvious all along he was a sleaze. Regret is not rape."

Anyone? Might not claim to have been raped, but certainly a victim of Brand.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/sep/19/brave-victims-russell-brand-misogyny-deserve-full-support

What is completely bizarre, with the benefit of 2023 hindsight, is how the Sachsgate story was framed, both by those who were reflexive defenders of the BBC and “comedy” and free speech (then a somewhat lefty preoccupation, funnily enough), AND by those who wished their destruction. Fleet Street quickly settled into tribes and covered it as a story where each assumed the other was acting out of vested interests. This was back when our only culture wars were about things that happened on the BBC. (My how we’ve grown.) Mail vox pops were incandescent; some Guardian ones found it an “overreaction”.

When the Brand expose broke last weekend, I found myself transported back to that time. And with my 2023 head on, rather sickening alarm bells began to ring, because I knew – I knew – that I wouldn’t have centred anything I wrote about it on Georgina Baillie. I had this shaming suspicion I had treated it as a sort of media story – and so it proved. My mentions of it say Ross and Brand were total scumbags, but they chiefly ridicule the fact that people complained to Ofcom because of the Mail titles’ coverage, despite never having heard the original broadcast. I mean … so what? Speaking of moronic points: LOOK NO FURTHER. Dear 2008 Marina: you think you’re being clever but you’re being horribly obtuse. Get your head out of your arse. It doesn’t matter whether or not they heard it, it’s still hideous and they have every right to think it’s absolutely unacceptable for the BBC to have aired it.

Yet despite getting it right on the vileness of the broadcast, the tabloids pursuing the BBC got it wrong by endlessly and ferociously slut-shaming Georgina Baillie (even though slut-shaming wasn’t a term people used at the time). They cast the entire affair as an insult to Andrew Sachs, instead of to Baillie as well. She was roundly blamed. I’m sorry if the Guardian’s cuttings archive is incomplete and I’ve missed something, but I couldn’t find a single column centred on defending Baillie in any contemporaneous newspaper. A year later, Baillie sold an interview and underwear photoshoot to the Sun in which she said the media maelstrom had sent her “insane”, subsequently telling the Guardian she was “a tart with a heart, a nice girl”. I am mortified to see I reacted to this by saying she should stop banging on about the whole thing.

In fact, Baillie sank into addiction and out of the public eye (barring the fact that the Brand story will probably be all anyone sees when they Google her for the rest of her life). But last weekend, she gave an interview to the Mirror in which she reiterated that her relationship with Brand had been consensual, though the radio prank and its nuclear fallout had obviously been anything but. Brand made millions with a standup tour in which he mined the incident and further humiliated her, while – among other desolations – her grandfather didn’t speak to her for eight years. She revealed that Brand had got in touch apologetically a few years ago, and paid for her stint in rehab. Georgina’s reflections were so without fury and blame as to be utterly heartbreaking. “For about 10 years after Sachsgate it was very hard,” she said, “because I didn’t know whether I was in the wrong, so when he apologised it was a huge weight lifted off me.” That quote floored me. She spent a decade thinking it was all her fault. That’s “the culture” right there.

The brave victims of Russell Brand’s misogyny deserve full support. This time, let’s get it right | Marina Hyde

The new claims made me think about the media’s treatment of the woman he famously humiliated on Radio 2, says Guardian columnist Marina Hyde

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/sep/19/brave-victims-russell-brand-misogyny-deserve-full-support

RedToothBrush · 19/09/2023 11:13

JustMyOpinion25 · 19/09/2023 11:06

Thank you for your judgement on my character.

Been a while since I've seen such an obvious MRA on MN.

How long have you been on MN?

JustMyOpinion25 · 19/09/2023 11:16

RedToothBrush · 19/09/2023 11:13

Been a while since I've seen such an obvious MRA on MN.

How long have you been on MN?

What is an MRA, I joined today, long time reader.

greenhydrangea · 19/09/2023 11:17

JustMyOpinion25 · 19/09/2023 11:06

Thank you for your judgement on my character.

No, you said yourself you were not fully aware of the facts. Ergo, you are indeed ignorant of the facts - not impartial, not non-judgemental.

JustMyOpinion25 · 19/09/2023 11:19

greenhydrangea · 19/09/2023 11:17

No, you said yourself you were not fully aware of the facts. Ergo, you are indeed ignorant of the facts - not impartial, not non-judgemental.

Thankfully I have not jumped to conclusions.

greenhydrangea · 19/09/2023 11:24

JustMyOpinion25 · 19/09/2023 11:19

Thankfully I have not jumped to conclusions.

Edited

Well, how would you if you didn't known the facts, as widely reported.

JustMyOpinion25 · 19/09/2023 11:26

Absolutely, surely that is morally the right thing to do.

The accusations are accusations, not yet evidence or fact, produced to a court.

Orangebadger · 19/09/2023 11:29

@JustMyOpinion25 yes misandry is out there, there are man haters. However how many powerful women do you know that silence men? How many industries do you know that promote and protect powerful misandrist women? In balance we all know who still hold most of the power and it's not women.

bombastix · 19/09/2023 11:30

You don't need to make conclusions on the allegations. But you can draw inferences and conclusions on what sort of man Brand us easily from his books, his conduct, and his really amazing ability to be respectful when it suits: the man has disgusting conduct to women.

If he had been posted here as a husband or partner the level of LTB would have hit the sky.

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