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Russell Brand - everyone knew

1000 replies

Mooshamoo · 18/09/2023 17:06

I was watching the comedian Katherine Ryan say to Louis theroux that a British comedian is a sexual perpetrator. It is now believed that she was talking about Russell brand. She said on the video "when it eventually comes out about these type of people, Harvey Weinstein, Bill Cosby, this unmentionable British personality, it turns out that everyone knew. Everyone knew. ".

I was wondering did anyone on here on mumsnet know anything about Russell brand? A lot of us lived in London when her was living there. And many women on here would have been a similar age to Russell brand . I lived in London for a year and I saw Russell brand out on a night out once. That was the extent of it. I was wondering did anyone on here have any experience with him, or know about a friend/acquaintance that had any experiences with him.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
16
Ramalangadingdong · 18/09/2023 22:21

When people ask why victims don’t report earlier they don’t understand that it can take a while to register what happened to you. You can be so shocked that you can’t quite make sense of what happened. I was raped by exh and I just didn’t want to believe it. I really didn’t want that to be my story, but it was. I still haven’t told anyone irl.

In the case of someone very young who is sexually assaulted and who knows very little about relationships they may not even quite understand what happened to them until they are much older.

bombastix · 18/09/2023 22:22

squareyedannie · 18/09/2023 21:52

@bombastix
I can't even look at Boyle after what he said in regards to disability.

Boyle is also repellent. I notice that he has changed his act to be less offensive and more inclusive but frankly he came across as a bigot

Justrolledmyeyesoutloud · 18/09/2023 22:25

It is only recent years l realised l was groomed/abused my a precious manager at work when l was in my early 20's. Absolute master of gaslighting - turned nasty if l ever tried to reject him. God l would wipe the floor with him now.

WinterDeWinter · 18/09/2023 22:27

MartinChuzzlewit · 18/09/2023 22:01

I have to say as someone who works in the media I didn’t think it was an Earth shattering piece of investigative journalism. They essentially got some women to speak and a random male comedian no one ever heard of - but nothing in the way of other evidence bar a few out of context text messages.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s NOT easy for a journalist to persuade a victim to speak about their experiences but it was an hour of talking heads and showing old footage. It was good but in my professional opinion, not great. It won’t stick in my mind the way the Weinstein piece did or the various pieces about the Catholic Church

I agree - it was unforgivably badly made for such an important piece. So many wasted opportunities, so much that was left out that should have been in, so much left in that muddied the waters. It was a mess from interview stage to final cut, and they let the women down.

bombastix · 18/09/2023 22:28

@Lalgarh - I do not think Brand has changed really. Many narcs like having a pet wife and kids in the country but having to be on tour themselves.

Combined with his wellness and association with women's addiction charities?

This leopard still has his spots.

Merrymouse · 18/09/2023 22:29

RockyBroadway · 18/09/2023 21:05

I love my job very much. It’s not just a job to me it’s part of my soul and being. It’s part of who I am.

If I had the choice between outing a rapist and losing my career and saying nothing, it would be bye bye career. Without a second thought. The reason why overpaid egos get away with everything is because the people around them let them, facilitate them and allow it to continue. It has to be stopped at the source.

To ‘out a rapist’ requires proof and willingness to have your character destroyed in public. Look at how Daisy Goodwin was treated - and she is old enough and experienced enough to be confident that her standing will offer her some protection - and all she wanted to do was warn about dodgy behaviour.

It makes a difference if more than one person is prepared to speak, and I think that is why these women are prepared to speak now.

MartinChuzzlewit · 18/09/2023 22:29

letthemalldoone · 18/09/2023 22:14

Ah well then - in your esteemed professional opinion, I guess Brand will be taking Channel 4 and The Times/Sunday Times to the cleaners?

Seeing as the investigative journalism was "not great" and "nothing in the way of other evidence bar a few out of context text messages"...

Any wonder I despair about the standards of journalism...!

You’re allowed your opinion I’m allowed mien.

No need to get your knickers in a twist.

No idea what Brand’s next move will be. He does seem very litigious so who knows - let’s see what the coming weeks bring.

MartinChuzzlewit · 18/09/2023 22:30

FOJN · 18/09/2023 22:18

I'm not referring to tax affairs.

What are you referring to then?

WinterDeWinter · 18/09/2023 22:30

Agree @Merrymouse It makes a difference if more than one woman is prepared to speak - and an even bigger difference if two huge media organisations will stand alongside you.

bombastix · 18/09/2023 22:33

Brand would be better off now if he had been able to get an injunction against Channel 4 and the Sunday Times as he is said to have done in the past.

In this instance, we got a lot of dribble posted on YouTube. He looked scared. If he could have stopped this with his lawyers he would have. Publish and see what happens is lunatic stuff

MartinChuzzlewit · 18/09/2023 22:33

bombastix · 18/09/2023 22:28

@Lalgarh - I do not think Brand has changed really. Many narcs like having a pet wife and kids in the country but having to be on tour themselves.

Combined with his wellness and association with women's addiction charities?

This leopard still has his spots.

Nothing to do with Brand but the biggest misogynistic wankers I knew at Uni who would dispose of women like rubbish have gone on to be Buddisht, yoga loving, healing vegany holier than thou types. I just think “Yeah but you were a vile prick 20 years ago. Maybe it’s what happens to awful men when they go past their sell by date and fewer women wanna shag them

bombastix · 18/09/2023 22:36

@MartinChuzzlewit - it is what happens to ageing old narcs because these activities attract naive women in large numbers. A very old trick.

Predators find new places to roam. They still predate.

Guiltridden12345 · 18/09/2023 22:37

Merrymouse · 18/09/2023 22:12

A text message admitting non consensual sex + a substantiated trip to a rape crisis center the following day - how much more context do you need?

Russell Brand is not the Catholic Church, so of course it doesn’t have similar impact. It’s relevant because of his impact on a particular culture and working environment, and the wider acceptance of abusive behaviour from men in other industries (most recently medicine). But there may be no criminal charges and he might just carry on broadcasting conspiracy theories (his mainstream career was over anyway).

that is not what his text message said - there was no admission. Her message afterwards alluded to something, but we only have her story as to context. That is an allegation, not a fact.

imagine you have an RTA. The person you collide with says ‘it was merrymouse’s fault’. Should the insurance company simply believe that? Of course not. And the same applies here. People’s acceptance of allegation as fact is quite terrifying.

MartinChuzzlewit · 18/09/2023 22:39

bombastix · 18/09/2023 22:36

@MartinChuzzlewit - it is what happens to ageing old narcs because these activities attract naive women in large numbers. A very old trick.

Predators find new places to roam. They still predate.

I think you’re onto something.

I stopped doing yoga at my last gym when I realised men of a certain age started to turn up and go in the second row.

FOJN · 18/09/2023 22:39

MartinChuzzlewit · 18/09/2023 22:30

What are you referring to then?

I'm not suggesting anything unlawful but I've seen him live and he oozes sleaze. When he invited audience members to join him for a drinking in the bar afterwards I just rolled my eyes.

And then there was this

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/jimmy-carr-hostesses-presidents-club-dorchester-hotel-latest-a8182631.html

Jimmy Carr accused of harassment and entering women's dressing room at Presidents Club event

'The girls felt that he was ogling them as they got dressed,' anonymous source says

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/jimmy-carr-hostesses-presidents-club-dorchester-hotel-latest-a8182631.html

mids2019 · 18/09/2023 22:42

Interesting that DJs of a certain generation are completely avoiding this as a topic, Chris Evans,Zoe Ball,Sara Cox...apart from scheduled news breaks not a whimper.

I think a lot of high profile stars have been too close now want to pretend they didn't know him. I wonder if your not condemning you are supporting?

MartinChuzzlewit · 18/09/2023 22:42

Guiltridden12345 · 18/09/2023 22:37

that is not what his text message said - there was no admission. Her message afterwards alluded to something, but we only have her story as to context. That is an allegation, not a fact.

imagine you have an RTA. The person you collide with says ‘it was merrymouse’s fault’. Should the insurance company simply believe that? Of course not. And the same applies here. People’s acceptance of allegation as fact is quite terrifying.

Exactly. I’m not saying she wasn’t raped but the text was not an admission of rape and very open to interpretation.

Also the whole “Jane’s friends can confirm she told them about the assault” - well again it’s not compelling or a ‘wow! Moment, it’s what I’d expect. It was a bit ‘is that the best they could get’. Even the male comedian never actually saw anything himself regarding Brand - it was all “Oh yeah I’ve heard rumours for years! I’m definitely not here because no one has ever heard of me and I need the career boost”.

It wasn’t brilliant journalism and the subject DID deserve better, in my opinion.

SurpriseItsMeHorseyNeighNeigh · 18/09/2023 22:42

notlucreziaborgia · 18/09/2023 18:14

Because he is. It costs a lot of money to pursue someone for libel/slander, a cost that is prohibitive for the majority of people. Russell Brand employs lawyers that are quick to threaten and aggressively shut down these allegations.

The victims would be very unlikely to be able to afford representation, and would absolutely be terrified of the threat of, at the very least, financial ruination. Those ‘in the now’ like Katherine Ryan, may know it to be true, but that isn’t the same thing as being able to prove it in a court of law.

Edited

He sued a woman for libel and the court made her publicly apologize...

This is sickening and it answers "why didn't they go to the police" or"why did nobody speak up earlier"...

RedToothBrush · 18/09/2023 22:43

letthemalldoone · 18/09/2023 22:14

Ah well then - in your esteemed professional opinion, I guess Brand will be taking Channel 4 and The Times/Sunday Times to the cleaners?

Seeing as the investigative journalism was "not great" and "nothing in the way of other evidence bar a few out of context text messages"...

Any wonder I despair about the standards of journalism...!

No he will struggle to take C4 or The Times 'to the cleaners'.

For the benefit who haven't seen me post this on another thread:

Even if RB is tried and found not guilty of rape, this DOESN'T mean he would be successful suing the press.

The Times and C4 can justify this in various ways.

Brand's behaviour doesn't really satisfy employment standards we would expect from public broadcasters. Using Brand as an example is a much lower threshold to argue in terms of why there should be a public debate about Brand in particular.

They also have case law on their side in terms of the public interest.

David Banks AT DBanksy
Remember, media law geeks, that The Sunday Times and #Dispatches are relying on the public interest in their investigation into Russell Brand. 30 years ago the ST published the story that led to the courts establishing the Reynolds Defence for public interest journalism.

Replaced now by the statutory defence of publication in the public interest in the Defamation Act 2013, the ‘10 steps’ of the Reynolds Defence are still a useful guide to journalists working on issues of public interest that might face legal challenge

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reynolds_v_Times_Newspapers_Ltd

The premise of this as a defence is as follows:
The case provided the Reynolds defence, which could be raised where it was clear that the journalist had a duty to publish an allegation even if it turned out to be wrong.

And the ten basic points are:

Depending on the circumstances, the matters to be taken into account include the following. The comments are illustrative only.

1) The seriousness of the allegation. The more serious the charge, the more the public is misinformed and the individual harmed, if the allegation is not true.
2) The nature of the information, and the extent to which the subject-matter is a matter of public concern.
3) The source of the information. Some informants have no direct knowledge of the events. Some have their own axes to grind, or are being paid for their stories.
4) The steps taken to verify the information.
5) The status of the information. The allegation may have already been the subject of an investigation which commands respect.
6) The urgency of the matter. News is often a perishable commodity.
7) Whether comment was sought from the plaintiff. He may have information others do not possess or have not disclosed. An approach to the plaintiff will not always be necessary.
8) Whether the article contained the gist of the plaintiff's side of the story.
9) The tone of the article. A newspaper can raise queries or call for an investigation. It need not adopt allegations as statements of fact.
10) The circumstances of the publication, including the timing.

This list is not exhaustive. The weight to be given to these and any other relevant factors will vary from case to case. Any disputes of primary fact will be a matter for the jury, if there is one.

Arguably, there is a case about the role of the public broadcasters and the status and behaviour of stars, which was not challenged and was to the detriment of female staff and any females the star may have come into contact with (hence the need to include a lot of what some posters have called 'extra fluff'. It's not. It's about standards in public life of those in positions of power and authority - that's Brand AND his managers at TV and radio).

You also have the point about the female comedian WhatsApp safety group and the wider argument about women in comedy not feeling safe.

And more generally the fact that women in the media industry do not feel able to report rape or sexual assault by any star due to power imbalances and the risk of THEIR reputational damage and loss of career. And the total lack of trust in the criminal justice system when it comes to rape.

And THESE are really important considerations in the nature of the allegations and the way they've been presented. And the strength of any case Brand might counter without criminal case against him or even with a firm not guilty verdict. BECAUSE IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT BRAND AS AN INDIVIDUAL. It's about the wider context of his behaviour and how even lesser behaviour was tolerated and ignored over a long period of time due to a pursuit of ratings over all else.

Thats why they included stuff like the discussion about removing all female production staff to 'protect them' and allow their star to continue. This shouldn't even have been a serious consideration. It would be unthinkable in every other industry as it's straight up institutional sexism at work.

C4 and The Times might get accused of failing on certain points over trying to over hype the story. I strongly suspect that the women concerned haven't received a penny for giving their stories in line with some of the considerations above. With regards to timing, some will argue that it's a conspiracy to shut up Brand cos he's after the establishment but I doubt that would stand up to much in court. Indeed the timing could work in C4 and The Times favour precisely because Brand already no longer is working on mainstream TV in the UK so there is less for him to lose from loss of existing TV work.

Brand's lawyers know this. C4 and The Times know this. And also have a point that will be exceptionally difficult to strike down in court in Brand's favour.

I do wish that people would stop thinking it's trial by media. It's about a lot more than that and a lot more than Brand himself. There is a real failure to understand many of the points made by The Times and C4 and the importance of these points.

I do think Brand would be foolish to go to court. He is a self confessed sex addict. His own words aren't exactly going to help him in terms of a good character reference. (Which also ties in with the extent of damage to his reputation - he can't argue that as much as he was never squeaky clean). He'd end up with a lot of stress and a big legal bill. He may try and to it, in order to enhance his status as anti-establishment and to try and 'score a hit against the main stream media by costing them a lot' but that's going to be expensive and risky and unlikely to result in a net gain.

The Reynolds Defence is really quite robust even though on the face of it, it might sound like it's protects the all powerful mass media. It requires a lot of hoops and work to meet the threshold in a court. And that's a MASSIVE balance in power whether others want to realise it or not - because it's centring the public interest - ordinary people not celebrities nor institutions. Media organisations have to PROVE its for the benefit of the public not them as an organisation.

If this opens up #metoo for the comedy circuit, it pretty much nails the Reynolds Defence for the The Times and C4 to the mast to a large extent.

There IS meticulous work by The Times and C4 to build a story which covers a number of themes and narratives to blow open wider discussions, in which Brand is only part of the story but is also crucial to its telling and necessitates him being named to illustrate certain issues.

Reynolds v Times Newspapers Ltd - Wikipedia

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reynolds_v_Times_Newspapers_Ltd

MartinChuzzlewit · 18/09/2023 22:43

mids2019 · 18/09/2023 22:42

Interesting that DJs of a certain generation are completely avoiding this as a topic, Chris Evans,Zoe Ball,Sara Cox...apart from scheduled news breaks not a whimper.

I think a lot of high profile stars have been too close now want to pretend they didn't know him. I wonder if your not condemning you are supporting?

What on Earth has it got to do with Zoe Ball?’

This is so ridiculous. My neighbours cat has said nothing either. Disgraceful

callmej · 18/09/2023 22:45

There were plenty of threads on here before he was named speculating who the Dispatches show would be about and many commentators said it couldn't possibly be him as it was well-known what he was like and that they'd be annoyed if all the hype was for 90 minutes revealing stuff everyone already knew ...

Guiltridden12345 · 18/09/2023 22:46

MartinChuzzlewit · 18/09/2023 22:42

Exactly. I’m not saying she wasn’t raped but the text was not an admission of rape and very open to interpretation.

Also the whole “Jane’s friends can confirm she told them about the assault” - well again it’s not compelling or a ‘wow! Moment, it’s what I’d expect. It was a bit ‘is that the best they could get’. Even the male comedian never actually saw anything himself regarding Brand - it was all “Oh yeah I’ve heard rumours for years! I’m definitely not here because no one has ever heard of me and I need the career boost”.

It wasn’t brilliant journalism and the subject DID deserve better, in my opinion.

It was 85 minutes to give 10 minutes of information, strung out with carefully selected pieces of his previous comedy which happened to fit the context. It was low brow.

whatnet · 18/09/2023 22:47

dearanon · Today 17:47

lifeturnsonadime · Today 17:42

And as much as I think he’s a total sleazeball I think he’s as much right to anonymity as his accusers/victims.

This is interesting to me.

Why should someone who is abusing women and abused children and has used a position of power to do so have a right to anonymity?

What children did he abuse? The 16 year old?

And here lies the problem 🤢. Given the fact misogyny and violence against women and children is an endemic part of UK culture and society (and still sadly supported and excused by many on the basis of ‘age 16) perhaps it is time to up that age of ‘consent’.

MartinChuzzlewit · 18/09/2023 22:47

Guiltridden12345 · 18/09/2023 22:46

It was 85 minutes to give 10 minutes of information, strung out with carefully selected pieces of his previous comedy which happened to fit the context. It was low brow.

Yes.

Showing him making jokes in his comedy set about sex wasn’t the chilling moment they thought it was, not for me anyway. We know that making jokes about sex was basically his 2 hour set for every single stand up tour he ever did.

RedToothBrush · 18/09/2023 22:48

SurpriseItsMeHorseyNeighNeigh · 18/09/2023 22:42

He sued a woman for libel and the court made her publicly apologize...

This is sickening and it answers "why didn't they go to the police" or"why did nobody speak up earlier"...

And as I also said on the other thread, let me introduce you to the concept of SLAPPS - Strategic lawsuit against public participation, in case you haven't come across it.

SLAPPs are legal actions typically brought by corporations or individuals with the intention of harassing, intimidating and financially or psychologically exhausting opponents via improper use of the legal system. SLAPPs are typically framed as defamation cases brought by wealthy individuals (including Russian oligarchs) or corporations to evade scrutiny in the public interest. They can occur across a broad spectrum of issues including data protection, privacy and environmental law. Actions are typically brought against investigative journalists, writers and publishers, and are designed to silence criticism.
SLAPPs characteristics include, but are not limited to, large numbers of aggressive pre-action letters, targeting a financially weak defendant and bringing claims simultaneously in multiple jurisdictions. At their heart SLAPPs fundamentally undermine freedom of speech and the rule of law.

The government are currently looking at introducing laws to prevent this - primarily initally with regards to Russian Oligarches - but there is cross party support for potentially expanding this to other areas. Its definitely on the agenda for the Labour Party.

There is an argument here to say that Brand MAY have effectively been doing this. It will be interesting to see whats revealed in these terms and where politicians eventually decide the law should go to stop SLAPPs and how far.

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