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Russell Brand - everyone knew

1000 replies

Mooshamoo · 18/09/2023 17:06

I was watching the comedian Katherine Ryan say to Louis theroux that a British comedian is a sexual perpetrator. It is now believed that she was talking about Russell brand. She said on the video "when it eventually comes out about these type of people, Harvey Weinstein, Bill Cosby, this unmentionable British personality, it turns out that everyone knew. Everyone knew. ".

I was wondering did anyone on here on mumsnet know anything about Russell brand? A lot of us lived in London when her was living there. And many women on here would have been a similar age to Russell brand . I lived in London for a year and I saw Russell brand out on a night out once. That was the extent of it. I was wondering did anyone on here have any experience with him, or know about a friend/acquaintance that had any experiences with him.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
16
Physiologicalmalfunction · 18/09/2023 22:49

bombastix · 18/09/2023 22:36

@MartinChuzzlewit - it is what happens to ageing old narcs because these activities attract naive women in large numbers. A very old trick.

Predators find new places to roam. They still predate.

I think this is a tactic too. My ex would go on and on and on about his 'community work' whilst secretly drooling at a women's arse as she walked past. BTW - it was only ever women he spoke to about his 'community work'. He just spoke about tits and arse to other men.

letthemalldoone · 18/09/2023 22:49

MartinChuzzlewit · 18/09/2023 22:29

You’re allowed your opinion I’m allowed mien.

No need to get your knickers in a twist.

No idea what Brand’s next move will be. He does seem very litigious so who knows - let’s see what the coming weeks bring.

My kickers are perfectly straight over my peachy, perky bum cheeks thanks.

Hopefully this is one mess his expensive lawyers won't be able to get him out of.

That's very easy to say @RockyBroadway. It's not so easy to do. I am guessing you are young and idealistic. Unfortunately that is not the way the world turns.

I have been enlightened by this discussion. I knew I was sexually abused as a young woman (not seriously, through clothes kind of thing, but upsetting) but it never struck me before that I am also a survivor of child sex abuse. All of this happened in my Saturday/holiday job, which I started age 15, a lot of it when I was 16/17.

I finally left in my early 20s because the business owner tried to kiss me one night in what could have been a dangerous one-to-one situation. I pushed him away and made my escape. It literally came out of nowhere. I didn't have a clue. He was a family friend, so it never ever occurred to me.

It was only later than I came to realise he had been grooming me. Admiring something I wore. Paying me extra in my wages (I laughed because nobody in their right mind would ever have described this man as generous!!). Offering me cigarettes with the promise not to tell my parents if I accepted (I didn't!)

I told my parents at the time about these things and they didn't see it either. So when the 'lunge' happened, I told them about that too. They told me not to say anything about it, as he was well-known as a local 'dignitary' in the local council. They said I would only be blamed for leading him on. Sad thing is, they were probably right.

So I can say, with experience, albeit on a much smaller scale, it's more than difficult for a young woman to call out her abuser, because she will always be much smaller, much weaker, less financially able, less empowered, and more judged by society as a hole.

spuddel · 18/09/2023 22:51

I'm a bit puzzled why now? I mean, if everyone knew what he was, why now? And why not all the sleaze balls who visited Epstein's island? Of course if Brand raped and assaulted he should face justice, cannot stand the man. I didn't see the programme but nothing that the press said would surprise me. But why are the media only now saying something? It feels odd.

Switcher · 18/09/2023 22:52

People forget what the early noughties were actually like. I was in my early 20s and a lot of what people now describe as abuse was a standard part of going out, fending off pervs, hooking up with the wrong guy, it was called all sorts of things. It was often really, really hard, being groped, having to flag down a cab and jump in as fast as possible to shake off a random, going to work lunches and having my colleagues guess the cup size. I spent five years with a guy who endlessly told me how stupid I was.
I think he's a disgusting creep, but it's for a court of law to decide whether it meets the bar of criminal conduct.

Mayormumbles · 18/09/2023 22:53

I wonder what kind of husband he is. His wife is beautiful and seems lovely, did she not read his book or even Google him a bit when they reconnected later in life? How could you marry someone who boasted about smashing a sex workers phone mid coitus or talked about psychologically abusing animals for fun? Just vomit inducing. Now he gets to add his own wife and daughters to the pile of women his behaviour has damaged. Its horrendous.

letthemalldoone · 18/09/2023 22:53

Guiltridden12345 · 18/09/2023 22:37

that is not what his text message said - there was no admission. Her message afterwards alluded to something, but we only have her story as to context. That is an allegation, not a fact.

imagine you have an RTA. The person you collide with says ‘it was merrymouse’s fault’. Should the insurance company simply believe that? Of course not. And the same applies here. People’s acceptance of allegation as fact is quite terrifying.

But it's not just allegations. It's information that has been thoroughly investigated. It would be way too risky to publish otherwise. Ch4/The Times must be pretty sure they are dealing in facts!

FormerTellyType · 18/09/2023 22:55

Yes I knew. I worked with him years ago and he was horrific. The trouble is that if you work in TV, especially at any of the big production companies you are bound by very firm NDAs.

letthemalldoone · 18/09/2023 22:57

Ramalangadingdong · 18/09/2023 22:21

When people ask why victims don’t report earlier they don’t understand that it can take a while to register what happened to you. You can be so shocked that you can’t quite make sense of what happened. I was raped by exh and I just didn’t want to believe it. I really didn’t want that to be my story, but it was. I still haven’t told anyone irl.

In the case of someone very young who is sexually assaulted and who knows very little about relationships they may not even quite understand what happened to them until they are much older.

Absolutely this!!

It's only now, some 40 years after the event, that I realise that my experiences weren't just sexual abuse, but child abuse as well.

As part of a generation who were basically expected to put up and shut up with being groped, it was a long time before I saw it for what it was.

I guess I never felt all that traumatised because it was normalised. It was what some men did.

Physiologicalmalfunction · 18/09/2023 22:57

perhaps it is time to up that age of ‘consent’.

No, no no nooooo. Seriously, I had loads of lovely consentual sex age 16 with my boyfriend (we lasted 8 years). No, raising the age of consent is not the answer,. The answer is to make young people much much much stronger and more aware of predatory people who may exploit them. It's a valuable lesson at any age anyway.

Lalgarh · 18/09/2023 22:58

Mayormumbles · 18/09/2023 22:53

I wonder what kind of husband he is. His wife is beautiful and seems lovely, did she not read his book or even Google him a bit when they reconnected later in life? How could you marry someone who boasted about smashing a sex workers phone mid coitus or talked about psychologically abusing animals for fun? Just vomit inducing. Now he gets to add his own wife and daughters to the pile of women his behaviour has damaged. Its horrendous.

A few years back he caused a minor twitter OUTRAGE when he said in an interview that he didn't bother with changing nappies and that as he was a Useless Man and his Wifey was so much more natural at it.
I remember then LOTS of muttering that #MeToo had mysteriously escaped him

https://www.standard.co.uk/showbiz/celebrity-news/russell-brand-slammed-as-sexist-after-revealing-he-doesn-t-change-his-children-s-nappies-a4044891.html

Suzanne Moore article notes his legal letters

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/21/russell-brand-change-the-world-try-changing-nappies

Russell Brand SLAMMED as 'sexist' as he says he won't change nappies

The comedian was called out for the "outdated" comments on social media

https://www.standard.co.uk/showbiz/celebrity-news/russell-brand-slammed-as-sexist-after-revealing-he-doesn-t-change-his-children-s-nappies-a4044891.html

Howlongwillthistake · 18/09/2023 22:59

News night tonight is addressing 'bad behaviour' in the TV industry... interesting!

letthemalldoone · 18/09/2023 23:01

RedToothBrush · 18/09/2023 22:43

No he will struggle to take C4 or The Times 'to the cleaners'.

For the benefit who haven't seen me post this on another thread:

Even if RB is tried and found not guilty of rape, this DOESN'T mean he would be successful suing the press.

The Times and C4 can justify this in various ways.

Brand's behaviour doesn't really satisfy employment standards we would expect from public broadcasters. Using Brand as an example is a much lower threshold to argue in terms of why there should be a public debate about Brand in particular.

They also have case law on their side in terms of the public interest.

David Banks AT DBanksy
Remember, media law geeks, that The Sunday Times and #Dispatches are relying on the public interest in their investigation into Russell Brand. 30 years ago the ST published the story that led to the courts establishing the Reynolds Defence for public interest journalism.

Replaced now by the statutory defence of publication in the public interest in the Defamation Act 2013, the ‘10 steps’ of the Reynolds Defence are still a useful guide to journalists working on issues of public interest that might face legal challenge

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reynolds_v_Times_Newspapers_Ltd

The premise of this as a defence is as follows:
The case provided the Reynolds defence, which could be raised where it was clear that the journalist had a duty to publish an allegation even if it turned out to be wrong.

And the ten basic points are:

Depending on the circumstances, the matters to be taken into account include the following. The comments are illustrative only.

1) The seriousness of the allegation. The more serious the charge, the more the public is misinformed and the individual harmed, if the allegation is not true.
2) The nature of the information, and the extent to which the subject-matter is a matter of public concern.
3) The source of the information. Some informants have no direct knowledge of the events. Some have their own axes to grind, or are being paid for their stories.
4) The steps taken to verify the information.
5) The status of the information. The allegation may have already been the subject of an investigation which commands respect.
6) The urgency of the matter. News is often a perishable commodity.
7) Whether comment was sought from the plaintiff. He may have information others do not possess or have not disclosed. An approach to the plaintiff will not always be necessary.
8) Whether the article contained the gist of the plaintiff's side of the story.
9) The tone of the article. A newspaper can raise queries or call for an investigation. It need not adopt allegations as statements of fact.
10) The circumstances of the publication, including the timing.

This list is not exhaustive. The weight to be given to these and any other relevant factors will vary from case to case. Any disputes of primary fact will be a matter for the jury, if there is one.

Arguably, there is a case about the role of the public broadcasters and the status and behaviour of stars, which was not challenged and was to the detriment of female staff and any females the star may have come into contact with (hence the need to include a lot of what some posters have called 'extra fluff'. It's not. It's about standards in public life of those in positions of power and authority - that's Brand AND his managers at TV and radio).

You also have the point about the female comedian WhatsApp safety group and the wider argument about women in comedy not feeling safe.

And more generally the fact that women in the media industry do not feel able to report rape or sexual assault by any star due to power imbalances and the risk of THEIR reputational damage and loss of career. And the total lack of trust in the criminal justice system when it comes to rape.

And THESE are really important considerations in the nature of the allegations and the way they've been presented. And the strength of any case Brand might counter without criminal case against him or even with a firm not guilty verdict. BECAUSE IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT BRAND AS AN INDIVIDUAL. It's about the wider context of his behaviour and how even lesser behaviour was tolerated and ignored over a long period of time due to a pursuit of ratings over all else.

Thats why they included stuff like the discussion about removing all female production staff to 'protect them' and allow their star to continue. This shouldn't even have been a serious consideration. It would be unthinkable in every other industry as it's straight up institutional sexism at work.

C4 and The Times might get accused of failing on certain points over trying to over hype the story. I strongly suspect that the women concerned haven't received a penny for giving their stories in line with some of the considerations above. With regards to timing, some will argue that it's a conspiracy to shut up Brand cos he's after the establishment but I doubt that would stand up to much in court. Indeed the timing could work in C4 and The Times favour precisely because Brand already no longer is working on mainstream TV in the UK so there is less for him to lose from loss of existing TV work.

Brand's lawyers know this. C4 and The Times know this. And also have a point that will be exceptionally difficult to strike down in court in Brand's favour.

I do wish that people would stop thinking it's trial by media. It's about a lot more than that and a lot more than Brand himself. There is a real failure to understand many of the points made by The Times and C4 and the importance of these points.

I do think Brand would be foolish to go to court. He is a self confessed sex addict. His own words aren't exactly going to help him in terms of a good character reference. (Which also ties in with the extent of damage to his reputation - he can't argue that as much as he was never squeaky clean). He'd end up with a lot of stress and a big legal bill. He may try and to it, in order to enhance his status as anti-establishment and to try and 'score a hit against the main stream media by costing them a lot' but that's going to be expensive and risky and unlikely to result in a net gain.

The Reynolds Defence is really quite robust even though on the face of it, it might sound like it's protects the all powerful mass media. It requires a lot of hoops and work to meet the threshold in a court. And that's a MASSIVE balance in power whether others want to realise it or not - because it's centring the public interest - ordinary people not celebrities nor institutions. Media organisations have to PROVE its for the benefit of the public not them as an organisation.

If this opens up #metoo for the comedy circuit, it pretty much nails the Reynolds Defence for the The Times and C4 to the mast to a large extent.

There IS meticulous work by The Times and C4 to build a story which covers a number of themes and narratives to blow open wider discussions, in which Brand is only part of the story but is also crucial to its telling and necessitates him being named to illustrate certain issues.

I know he won't - my comment was (intended to be!) ironic!

Merrymouse · 18/09/2023 23:03

Guiltridden12345 · 18/09/2023 22:37

that is not what his text message said - there was no admission. Her message afterwards alluded to something, but we only have her story as to context. That is an allegation, not a fact.

imagine you have an RTA. The person you collide with says ‘it was merrymouse’s fault’. Should the insurance company simply believe that? Of course not. And the same applies here. People’s acceptance of allegation as fact is quite terrifying.

It is investigative reporting, published after extensive research. There is no criminal case as yet.

I think an insurance company would very much believe I was at fault given evidence of a similar text chain relating to an RTA where I had apologised for wrong doing and the other party had taken their car straight to a garage to get a report.

What do you think he was apologising for? The text chain makes it clear that she did not consent to have sex without a condom, but he did not give her the choice.

RedToothBrush · 18/09/2023 23:05

Scott Bryan AT scottygb
“In one joke, Katherine Ryan described how it was good to see Brand “looking so good”, before adding: ‘I will remind you of that if any victims come out.’”

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/de20737e-5655-11ee-9ad7-7384b2f230c5?shareToken=f0bb969d8f3a7c11cbf528f4caf65e2b

Sources said that jokes about Carr focused on his tax avoidance, while Ryan was mocked for having had cosmetic surgery. But the jokes about Brand had a much darker undertone, with comedians — including Ryan — referring to rumours of allegations against him.

And

In return, multiple sources from the show said that Roast Battle producers encouraged other comedians not to mock Brand. They are not understood to have specified jokes relating to women.

“I believe that if anyone had still done it [mock Brand about his sexual behaviour], he could walk immediately with full pay,” another source said.

Katherine Ryan hinted at ‘open secret’ of Russell Brand allegations

Russell Brand’s alleged sexual offending was such an open secret in the British entertainment industry that fellow comedians confronted him about his behaviour on camera six years ago. Brand, 48, who has been accused of rape and sexual assault, which h...

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/de20737e-5655-11ee-9ad7-7384b2f230c5?shareToken=f0bb969d8f3a7c11cbf528f4caf65e2b

CherryMaDeara · 18/09/2023 23:10

Mayormumbles · 18/09/2023 22:53

I wonder what kind of husband he is. His wife is beautiful and seems lovely, did she not read his book or even Google him a bit when they reconnected later in life? How could you marry someone who boasted about smashing a sex workers phone mid coitus or talked about psychologically abusing animals for fun? Just vomit inducing. Now he gets to add his own wife and daughters to the pile of women his behaviour has damaged. Its horrendous.

She was 18 when she got pregnant by him in 2016, then they married in 2017.

Apparently her dad begged her to break it off because of the age gap.

I wonder if RB deliberately got her pregnant to trap her.

If she stays by his side knowing all this then I don’t have much sympathy, although it’s possible she has been worn down by him as well.

Plus there’s the money to think of too, and baby #3 on the way.

Frances0911 · 18/09/2023 23:11

Lauren Harries has now claimed to have had a secret six month relationship with him. She said it was all done on the quiet as she felt he was embarassed.

Merrymouse · 18/09/2023 23:11

And as RTB says, the point is not whether anything broadcast/published by Dispatches or C4 proves Brand is guilty of a crime (that is for the courts to decide), but how his behaviour and the culture that allowed/allows it impacts us all.

MartinChuzzlewit · 18/09/2023 23:15

CherryMaDeara · 18/09/2023 23:10

She was 18 when she got pregnant by him in 2016, then they married in 2017.

Apparently her dad begged her to break it off because of the age gap.

I wonder if RB deliberately got her pregnant to trap her.

If she stays by his side knowing all this then I don’t have much sympathy, although it’s possible she has been worn down by him as well.

Plus there’s the money to think of too, and baby #3 on the way.

Are you talking about Russell Brand’s wife?

QueenCamilla · 18/09/2023 23:16

@Guiltridden12345
Are legal - illegal your only guides in life? Does your sense of right vs wrong go by the book of law only? Do you have no morality? It would go quite some way to explain why you can’t rationalise Phil Schofield being "destroyed".

Brand brings more of Ian Watkins parallels though. And that one case shows very well why a woman would be between a rock and a hard place when deciding to speak the truth on celebrity.

Someone rich and beyond-all-suspicion naaaice, got away with raping me within the confines of our relationship. A friend called the police the next day upon seeing the bite marks and bruises. I refused to even name him when the police attended.
It would have made the local press at some point... and I would be absolutely eviscerated by his family, friends and lawyers as some gold-digging unhinged whore who also happens to like it rough. He had already started to plant these rumours just mere hours after the rape. Straight into mitigation mode.
I would stand no chance.

Vultures? Who exactly are those in the story? All I can say is, don't be a rotten to the core, empty corpse of a human being - then they won't come.

CherryMaDeara · 18/09/2023 23:16

MartinChuzzlewit · 18/09/2023 23:15

Are you talking about Russell Brand’s wife?

Yes

RedToothBrush · 18/09/2023 23:17

Merrymouse · 18/09/2023 23:11

And as RTB says, the point is not whether anything broadcast/published by Dispatches or C4 proves Brand is guilty of a crime (that is for the courts to decide), but how his behaviour and the culture that allowed/allows it impacts us all.

Thats a really short and clear explaination.

Cheers.

user9630721458 · 18/09/2023 23:19

spuddel · 18/09/2023 22:51

I'm a bit puzzled why now? I mean, if everyone knew what he was, why now? And why not all the sleaze balls who visited Epstein's island? Of course if Brand raped and assaulted he should face justice, cannot stand the man. I didn't see the programme but nothing that the press said would surprise me. But why are the media only now saying something? It feels odd.

I don't think they will ever investigate all the people who went to Epstein's island! That one has strangely been put to rest. But Brand is lower hanging fruit and I suppose they are doing it now because they finally got enough to go ahead, though probably knew about it for years.

whatnet · 18/09/2023 23:20

Physiologicalmalfunction · Today 22:57

perhaps it is time to up that age of ‘consent’.

No, no no nooooo. Seriously, I had loads of lovely consentual sex age 16 with my boyfriend (we lasted 8 years). No, raising the age of consent is not the answer,. The answer is to make young people much much much stronger and more aware of predatory people who may exploit them. It's a valuable lesson at any age anyway.

I am happy for you that you had “loads of lovely *consensual sex at age 16” well done. The issue lies with those who do not see a 16 year old as a child, yes a child. “The answer is to make young people much much stronger and more aware of predatory people who may exploit them. It’s a valuable lesson at any age”

I will say it again, and here lies the problem 🤢. Children, particularly girls, in this patriarchal, misogynistic, VIOLENT culture and society we find ourselves in, in the UK need better protections. One immediate way, is upping the age of consent. Predators groom and use the ‘16’ card as a way of getting around the law, and enablers like you are complicit.

It is sickening and I would like to hear if RB as the father of daughters and all the others in his sphere would up the age of consent when THEIR daughters were teenagers/CHILDREN

MartinChuzzlewit · 18/09/2023 23:22

CherryMaDeara · 18/09/2023 23:16

Yes

Well you could at least get your facts right.

She wasn’t 18 when she got pregnant in 2017. She was 30.

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