Bully XLs - if breed-specific legislation isn't the answer, what is?

[Middlelanehogger]

Upfront - I'm glad bully XLs will be banned. There have been way too many attacks and if we're going to have a banned breeds list then they definitely belong on it!

But I do agree a bit with people who say BSL is a bit pointless because backyard breeders will just create another one and then there will be a few years of muddled statistics before the govt realises this is the new killer breed and then has to take months and months to define it etc

So what should the rule be... ideally one that is predictive in advance and not just waiting for the dogs to kill first... Size/weight? Zero tolerance for "minor" bites? Dog licences for all? Make owners & breeders criminally responsible for murders their dogs commit?

YANBU = yes this is a serious issue
YABU = my velvet hippo would never hurt a fly

Should definitely stop breeding bully XL puppies. The gene pool is very small and they are so inbred. It's bound to cause issues.

I think owners should be held accountable for controlling the animals they own. If the dog attacks someone, the owner should be held accountable.

Education on canine welfare and behaviour from a young age coupled with reduced cost neutering, a focus on responsible dog ownership, and more accessible enclosed dog parks which could be funded via licensing and fines.

And tighter controls around the breeding and sale of all companion animals.

30yr sentence for anyone who breeds a dog that kills . Same for the owner. If that's not a deterrent for people not to have them nothing will be .
Muzzle outside the home
Licence for certain breed
Home check for correct environment.

All dogs to be muzzled in public and kept on a lead unless in a designated area for dogs.

I think there needs to be much more control over dog ownership generally. The amount of dog shit everywhere is disgusting. Dog owners think they have the right to let their dogs do whatever they want, go to cafe's, shopping centres, children playgrounds, and run around off lead jumping up at people, licking children's faces, etc. Ok not all dog owners, but a significant proportion.
I would bring in a compulsory dog licence for any dog over 25 kg. The owner would have to have a clean DBS check, complete a training course, and the dog would need to be kept muzzled in public. All dogs should be kept on lead unless in designated areas.

I would ban XL bullies but also extreme brachycephalic dogs (french bulldogs, pugs, English bulldogs for example).

I think a mandatory vet visit for every puppy to allow characterisation and bring back dog licences to monitor breeds and make breeders and owners accountable.

This is a serious issue and while there are some lovely examples of these dogs out there, on the whole the breed is a mess.
In my opinion the solution is more regulated breeding and ownership.
If breeding was regulated and the dogs were health and temperament tested before they were allowed to be bred from there'd be less problems across all breeds. Additionally having to have a licence to own and keep a dog.
I guess enforcing this would be difficult but a good place to start would be to require proof of licences to register at a vets to receive vaccinations and treatment. Vets can then pass on any unlicensed owners to the relevant parties. I guess you could go as far as making it a law to neuter females that you are nit licenced to breed from (as neutering males can cause behavioural changes) but again this is all so difficult to enforce. Bodies like the kennel club need overhauling as its not worth the paper it's written on, just because a dog is KC reg doesn't mean it's well bred

Dog licences for ALL breeds. Specific legislation for potentially dangerous breeds and compulsory training. Hard to police I know, but the problem isn’t usually the dog. It’s the people who want that particular dog as a status symbol/guard dog and don’t give the time and effort to train the dog.
You don’t see ‘Road men’ or drugs dealers wandering the streets with a dangerously out of control golden retriever because those dogs don’t have the intimidating look/nature these people require their dogs to have. There are many XL bullies who have been bred responsibility and trained to an exceptionally high standard by responsible owners. Irresponsible owners and breeders are the issue.
Personally I wouldn’t have one. The sheer weight and strength puts me off because all dogs are unpredictable, but some more than others.

People to be licensed before they are allowed to have any breed. With a home check and possible restrictions on the type / size of dog they are able to own based on home environment / family situation, owner’s experience etc.

Spot checks to see if dog owners actually have the licences, dog seized if not.

Cost to be met by the person who wants to have the dog.

^Additionally having to have a licence to own and keep a dog.
I guess enforcing this would be difficult but a good place to start would be to require proof of licences to register at a vets to receive vaccinations and treatment.^

People would just avoid getting regular vet care. Other places have seen success in giving incentives for licensing e.g. reduced fines if your dog is caught straying, discounts at certain pet shops, etc.

How would that work in the case of the dog walker who died and they can't say which dogs took part? Or the couple who took their pack of huskeys out at 11pm with their baby, who was killed but walked free from court? The breeders can't be held responsible.
The muzzle/on a lead in public ignores the dog attacks from/in the home. They aren't going to be banned, posters need to read the proposals.

I agree with this ban but would also like to see licencing for owners of large dogs and tighter breeding controls (licencing by a national body, not local authorities, for a start).

Some people make the mistake of thinking that because a particular measure isn't a total solution, it's not worth doing. But as with most crimes there's no way to eradicate it, dangerous dogs will undoubtedly continue to be bred, but increment measures should reduce the prevalence. Banning these dogs will help because a proportion of owners/potential owners will be put off by the ban. Joanne Robinson is an example.

This

Dog licences. All comes down to the wrong people having the wrong dogs (or any dogs). Every single time there’s a dog attack, it comes out sooner or later - dogs left unattended with small children, big strong dogs owned by people who don’t know how to train them properly, dog walkers with too many dogs to have control of them all, etc. etc.

How you would actually turn that in to a realistic and effective system, is a very complicated question though.

Force breeders of any type of dog to pay for an in person homecheck, from a suitably qualified and experienced person, for anyone they want to sell a dog to. As it stands currently, literally anyone can buy a dog, which is how so many of these dogs have ended up in such unsuitable homes.
Bring back dog licensing but make it much more strict and closely monitored, to include an annual visit from a qualified person to ensure the dog is being properly cared for and is under control. Paid for from the licensing fee.

The muzzle and leads don't tackle dog attacks in the home, you are right. They do tackle them outside the home though and would save lives- not sure what there is to be argued against really?

If its not possible to ban the breed, would it be possible to ban dogs of a certain bite strength or just a certain size and power?

I’d say that dog types bred for fighting, which is what these are, should be banned. They are a danger to people and other dogs, as well as cats and other animals. This should apply regardless of whether they are actually being used for fighting. I have witnessed a serious dog attack and it was no joke at all, sure, any dog can bite or be aggressive, but most pet dogs can’t really compress a neck with enough force to kill. The police told me after the attack that that is how they kill, through the compressive strength in their jaw. I think the legislation does talk about types rather than breeds, haven’t read it, but there must be scope to legislate against types bred for fighting, rather than breeds.

Deal with the criminal lowlife who like having these animals. The drug dealers, the pimps, the antisocial scum who blight certain neighbourhoods.
If they are leant on daily, rather than police standing by whilst they make money through fear and intimidation, their dopey 'partners' constantly under SS scrutiny, DC removed, make life so uncomfortable the last thing they want is grief over their choice of dog.
Banning the dogs is a sticking plaster on an open wound.

My feeling is around a lot more regulation about who can legally breed animals (or import semen, I guess). This would be no bad thing at all. I'm foreign so I want them all neutered, anyway.

Someone I know suggested that owner could be charged with the crime the animal did. Ie, dog bites a person = owner charged with assault.

Would that penalty influence people who like having a violet dog, or would they still not care? I dunno.

ps: how is having a dog licence any different from having the animal micochipped?

This change in law seems to have been triggered by the death of Ian Price, the dogs jumped out of the window to get him. Other child deaths and attacks have been in the house/garden. Two other adults were killed by dogs jumping over hedges/fences. That's beside the dogs/other pets that have been killed by these dogs getting out of their back gardens. It's a sticking plaster on a gaping wound.

My dream scenario would be to ban ALL dogs as pets. Police/assistance dogs only.

Whilst current pets are still alive, all to be muzzled in public.

Well, it seems Anatolian shepherds have the biggest bite force.

ps: how is having a dog licence any different from having the animal micochipped?

Licensing could be used to fund other control measures.

My ideal solution would be to focus on education and to totally overhaul the DDA.

I would educate children of primary school aged and older in canine welfare and behaviour. 80% of dog attacks can be attributed to human error/environmental factors. Education is the only thing that could reduce this.

On top of that, I would bring in dog licensing and on-the-spot fines for dogs viewed to be breaking the laws of the new DDA.

The new laws would include;

1. all dogs to be licensed. 2)All dogs are to be spayed or neutered by the age of 2 unless registered for breeding or otherwise advised by a qualified behaviorist that it would be detrimental to the dog's welfare to neuter. I would also put into place a nationwide reduced-cost scheme for low-income families to neuter and spay (paid for by licensing and fines)
2. Dog wardens with the power to issue on-the-spot fines to patrol parks and other dog hotspots (paid for via licensing and fines)
3. Fines issued for any dog witnessed to be out of control in public - out of control in public would include but not be limited to lack of recall and chasing or jumping on members of the public. Fines can be lowered if the dog owner attends a "dog awareness" class which would aim to teach owners how to train and control their dog using scientifically backed training methods.
4. Incentivise training by allowing reduced-cost licenses for dogs who have passed their canine good citizen awards.
5. Incentivise licensing by working with businesses to give discounts on pet products for license holders.

I would then look at breeding and the sale of companion animals and create new laws around that. All breeding animals must be registered and to be registered they must pass stringent health and temperament tests. No animal born from unregistered parents can be sold for profit. They must instead be rehomed via a registered rescue. I would ban the sale of live animals on social media platforms and only allow websites to advertise animals for sale if they took measures to check the parents of the advertised animals were properly registered. All breeders must do home checks to ensure the suitability of the new owners.

I wouldn't ban any breed as breed is not a reliable predictor for aggression.

This is what the British Veterinary Association had to say.