Bully XLs - if breed-specific legislation isn't the answer, what is?

[Middlelanehogger]

Upfront - I'm glad bully XLs will be banned. There have been way too many attacks and if we're going to have a banned breeds list then they definitely belong on it!

But I do agree a bit with people who say BSL is a bit pointless because backyard breeders will just create another one and then there will be a few years of muddled statistics before the govt realises this is the new killer breed and then has to take months and months to define it etc

So what should the rule be... ideally one that is predictive in advance and not just waiting for the dogs to kill first... Size/weight? Zero tolerance for "minor" bites? Dog licences for all? Make owners & breeders criminally responsible for murders their dogs commit?

YANBU = yes this is a serious issue
YABU = my velvet hippo would never hurt a fly

Something needs to be done.
We have a situation where dogs weighing more than some healthy human adults are routinely out of control, are being bred with unstable genetics, with terrible upbringings, poor socialisation and then passed around homes, each worse than the last.
Dogs that have had their ears cropped as pups without anaesthetic, their first few weeks of live will be pain and suffering, that does not make healthy well-rounded adults.
Breeding for increased body mass has resulted in dogs with severe hip and elbow issues, again, dogs in pain. Dogs in pain are not happy campers, they bite, often unpredictably.
It's a disaster waiting to happen and I don't want anyone else getting hurt.
The answer isn't more BSL, imo it's dog wardens coming down hard on shit owners, breeding restrictions being introduced, and a huge public safety awareness of how to approach and look after dogs.
Also, where the feck has the RSPCA been for the last few years, this has been a dog welfare issue for years with pups having their ears cropped, poor breeding practices, dogs kept in crates and outside before being passed onto homes with small kids. And they've been nowhere.

Entirely pointless considering the dogs that cause issues are not owned by responsible pet owners. They wouldn’t abide by such rules anyway

It’s temperament as much as size, though.

I feel far safer around a St Bernard than a Jack Russell (for instance)

The RSPCA seem to exist to raise money and that's it. Like many large charities, they bypass their initial aims to chase the cash now.

That's great in theory, but as PP have said it's impossible to enforce.
Banning one dog breed will just lead to another one being created, in addition many irresponsible owners aren't the type to pay attention to the law anyway.
Who's going to enforce it?
But if there's a fine, or a law that the owner must pay compensation and these people are CAUGHT then it's a deterrent,

Of course, all these things can be implemented together but banning breeds on their own with no impact to the owener other than dog PTS will not work. 100%.

Destroy all non compliant dogs, they’re too much of a risk. Jail sentence for anyone found breeding or owning one after the ban.

I'd rather be locked in a room with a pissed off jack russel than a pissed off rottweiler though.

Larger dogs with naturally good temperaments would be natural casualties of a size reduction scheme. Just one of those things. It would prevent thuglife from moving on to cane corsos. We all have to suffer thanks to plod not controlling thuglife. Just the way of the world now.

As a bare minimum dog breeders should be licensed .

And how do you control backstreet breeders?

What do other countries do?

Oh, I agree with that. But I’d prefer if there were no aggressive large or small dogs - so if there was some way of going by temperament that would be better.

What would you do with the dogs that didn't meet the standard for police work or medical assistance, though? Lots of guide dogs for example don't meet the grade and end up in pet homes.

Sorry was trying to reply to @Johnnylewis

I once had occasion to contact them to ask for help - we were desperate, and after £10k of vet bills our other two dogs fell ill and we were broke. They told me (in order):

• That they needed our address and the address of our vet in order to help.
• They're a marketing and litigation organisation only, and will never take direct action to help pet owners.
• They'd be contacting our vet in a few days, and if we hadn't taken the dogs in for treatment they'd be commencing criminal action against us for animal cruelty (they actually did this, and our vet of 10 years told them to get fked).

That was their response to us asking them in a last-ditch attempt to try to get the money together to treat our dogs.

They don't give a damn. They'll never be anywhere near this other than making a few soundbites so people remember they exist and holding out their grubby paws for cash.

Could reduce the selection even further by allowing Cavalier King Charles spaniels for instance, but not Jack Russells? Reintroduce and allow better temperament small breeds and mongrels.

Of course the Kennel Club wouldn't allow such legislation because money always wins, but it's a logical step in my opinion.

Euthanasia I suppose. Unfortunate, but we all pay the price for today's lovely feral thuglife society.

Bloody shocking that!

They wouldn't come out to rescue an eagle owl (non native bird) that landed in my friend's garden. It was sitting there for hours.

I think the ban and the DDA need to stay and be improved by genetic testing. Any dog type that has been bred in the past for fighting should be neutered and the type/breed allowed to die out. In the meantime muzzle in private garden and public.
Licence for All dogs
People to go preparation classes before getting a dog and the compulsory training and socialisation classes.
Stop the inbreeding and silly rules of the KC.
Stop importing dogs and cats for breeding
Stop importing cats and dogs from rescues overseas. This is a lucrative business (some are bred specifically for the UK rescue market) and there are plenty of strays here that need rehomed.

STOP treating dogs as fur babies. They are not toys they are intelligent sociable animals.

Little dogs can bite and do damage too.

Ban dogs from the school gates. Not all children like dogs.

Supermarkets, shopping malls are not a dog park. Only properly trained and licensed support dogs should be allowed in these places.

I am a dog owner.

An average adult woman fights every breed of dog, smallest to biggest. Ban anything she can’t defeat.

It isn't a sticking plaster, it is a start...we have to start somewhere

So agree

Heavy punishment for anyone who's dog bites, GBH, or murder charge. Charges for them attacking another dog or cat too.

Animal shelters should not be allowed to rehome dogs which have shown any signs of aggression.

Maybe dogs over a certain weight should be licensed & have public liability insurance. If its not insured then police should have right to destroy/ pts.

Definitely need a crackdown on backyard breeders, license all breeders and hold them partly responsible for any dog that goes on to attack another animal or person. Make breeders carry out checks on the home and lifestyle of potential buyers to ensure they're capable of looking after the dog. Too many people get unsuitable breeds because they like the idea or look of a dog, not realising how much care, attention, exercise and training they require.

Also, total ban on the sale/exchange of pets through gumtree and social media. Too many people getting puppies not bothering to socialise or train them then passing them on because they're too big, energetic or reactive.

Microchip scanning to be undertaken like the random breathalyser tests they do for drivers around Christmas, any dog without up to date details confiscated with an on the spot fine. Certain breeds or dogs over a certain size to be muzzled in public spaces.

Banning a breed strikes me as a short term solution, long term we need to look at the breeding, sale and lifetime responsibility for the dog.

Breed specific bans are a large part of the solution. It doesn't really matter whether the "fault" lies with the animal or the owner, the danger is the same. Same with any weapon - I prefer the British stance of banning handguns, rather than the American approach of insisting it's the owners who are dangerous, not the guns (even though that's clearly true! No gun ever went on a shorting spree without a human attached to it)

And it's simply not true that all dogs have equal potential to become deadly. Size, power, temperament and breeding lines are very clear risk factors.

Lots of pointless advice from rspca and British vet assoc - stop the breeding yeah- how? Someone has a shed on his farm where he breeds dogs -who’s to know,?
Teach the owners? well the owners of dangerous breeds want a threatening and dangerous breed.

Increase sentences -most dog attacks don’t get prison -just a limited fine.
Prison even if the attack is on your land or in your home. All dogs chipped -hefty fine if not. Charities can help ‘poor’ people who can’t afford the chip.
Chipping means vets would meet each dog and have a record of the owner.