20mph in Wales - why???

[Flpwer]

I don't understand why Mark Drakeford has done this - surely this will just cause more road rage??? Is this a money-making ploy because they know a lot of people will probably drive over it as 20mph feels so unnatural.

Also it’s a speed limit not a speed target, it doesn’t mean you have to be flat out at 20 the whole time. I’ve been setting my cruise control to 15mph to be safe and putting my podcasts on. It’s nice to actually get through more of them on the journey now

I'm referring to data taken from urban cycle tests which includes stopping and starting and gear changing as part of the test.

Accelerating the move to EVs will accelerate the carbon problem - the greenest car is one which is maintained and used until it is end of life. That is the point to look at replacement with EV, not because its the latest fashion statement.

For residential roads, 20mph has a strong case (along with pedestrian priority in many cases). Outside of that - not so much. To me its just a big distraction and bit of virtue signalling which fails to address the actual problem of driving quality which is the cause in most accidents on non residential roads.

As a pedestrian, a cyclist, and a resident 20mph is safer for me. I realise that being contained within a metal box makes many motorists fail to consider the needs of vulnerable road users, but tough, we have rights too.

the greenest car is one which is maintained and used until it is end of life

@C8H10N4O2 that's far too simplistic. If a car hardly gets used then yes, the embodied emissions in a new car would outweigh the savings from a more efficient engine. If you do high mileages on the other hand then it certainly is worth replacing.

Of course driving standards are the cause of almost all "accidents" i'd like to see the test improved and regular re tests too & with far greater sanctions for motorists who use their cars as little more than a weapon.

Agree on EVs, look at whats been wasted by not having better fuels and engines? Euro 6 was 8 years ago, nothing since, as we move to (the wider environmental impact of) EVs, even if they can improve local air quality.

No one needs more than a 1600cc vehicle (outside of specific sectors such as agri) with the vast majority limited to a 1l one.

Battery manufacture is hugely damaging & with few options for recycling, EVs also have to be large, in order to carry these heavy batteries, so we wreck roads and cause issues for cyclists etc.

The tech just isn't there yet and thats before we get onto charging infrastructure and how electricity is generated to charge.

Why 15? Why not 10 or 5? 15 seems dizzyingly fast.

Also why listen to podcasts? You should park up in the middle of the road and get a picnic out. Wave at everyone else crawling past at 15 mph.

This place is utterly weird.

Day 2 and I quite like it. It’s not a blanket change to all of Wales’ roads and I hope that those who are grumbling gif involved in their council’s consultations

Yesterday I drove from Pembrokeshire to cardiff and only the first and last few miles were different to when I left on friday

Today I have been for a haircut and to get my prescription, meat and groceries in our local high street about 4 miles away. Just over half of my journey had changed from 30 to 20. I can’t say that I noticed it taking me much longer!

I am finding it really frustrating, but what is more frustrating is that they haven't bothered to change the road signs!! Everywhere is still showing 30. Do I have to assume that all 30 signs really mean 20? Apart from when I am in a residential area..

Not sure why she's even getting in the car, she doesn't seem to want to actually go anywhere.

The 40 to 20 on our main road is going to be an issue, I think.

far greater sanctions for motorists who use their cars as little more than a weapon.

That would certainly be nice. There was a case near me, motorist was recorded shouting "I'll f+*&ing kill you" as he ran someone off of the road. He then drove off, returning shortly afterwards with his wife driving so that he could rubber neck as the paramedics did their work.

Given the clear statement of intent, recorded both on video and audio, did he get charged with attempted murder? Did he fairycakes. "Driving without due care and attention" so not even a charge of dangerous driving.

I also agree with what you say about retesting. It's ridiculous that you can pass your test at 17 and avoid ever having to be reassessed for decades after that, so long as you avoid getting prosecuted for anything. At my workplace we get our competency checked regularly; with medicals every five years (more often as you get older), full theory tests every three years (comprehensive ones, not just a random sample), riding assessments, covert monitoring and black box/CCTV downloads.

At the very least motorists should be subject to retesting every ten years.

Traffic in my area has been chaos today because no one has any idea what roads are 20mph and what have stayed at 30mph. On Facebook the local labour councillor is telling everyone that a certain road is still 30mph but the council put new 20mph signs up there last week, if the people in charge don't know how are we supposed to know?

On another note people who don't drive will be impacted by this 20mph speed limit too. My BIL is a class one driver and he's already said that the amount of deliveries they usually do in a day will drop due to driving time laws. When my sister spoke to him on his break he said he was already 1hr 45 minutes behind because people are driving on every road apart from motorways at 20mph.

This is what happens when people blindly vote for the same part over and over again without actually reading their manifesto, it did actually say in there that they would do this so if you voted for then this is what you asked for.

No. If there are specific signs displaying a limit of 30 mph then the limit is 30 mph (or at least, the only limit anyone can enforce is 30 mph).

Stolen from a local Facebook group.

The next 'Speed Awareness Course' in Wales.

If you drive at 15 mph, the queue behind you is down to 10. Stay home to listen to the wireless! It's dangerous.

Why would they be angry with you if they are also driving at 20mph?

@GPTec1 ”No one needs more than a 1600cc vehicle (outside of specific sectors such as agri) with the vast majority limited to a 1l one.”

This is how you can tell they are not really interested in pollution.
They could bring in laws like this, or minimum mpg requirements, but they haven’t/won’t.

On another note people who don't drive will be impacted by this 20mph speed limit too. My BIL is a class one driver and he's already said that the amount of deliveries they usually do in a day will drop due to driving time laws. When my sister spoke to him on his break he said he was already 1hr 45 minutes behind because people are driving on every road apart from motorways at 20mph.

As a non driver in Wales I had realised this .

I told DS who gets bus to college there could be delays today and that he may need earlier buses.

I've seen a lot of figures thrown around by for and against a lot sound dubious but expect the situation will be monitored and soon become clearer.

Of course driving standards are the cause of almost all "accidents" i'd like to see the test improved and regular re tests too

I suspect that would be pointless. The vast majority know how to drive well enough to pass the test on the day… and then go back to their old habits until the next test.

17 to 24 year olds have the most accidents in the UK. The same group that most recently passed a test.

1600cc is too extravagant. A pushbike is the only acceptable mode of transport. Or better still, if you truly care about the environment, stick to a unicycle.

MN is a parallel universe.

I also live in rural north Wales. I went to the local supermarket yesterday and did the school run twice today. The 20 mph areas were really only the bits of the journey I couldn't go any faster anyway.

My parents live in an area where they've done 20mph all over the place.

They say in reality what happens is the good drivers try and keep to 20... and the poor ones ignore it except by the speed cameras and overtake everyone else, including on blind bends, in their way being far more dangerous than they were before.

Edited to add: They were also horrified at the cost of changing all the street signs etc. It was a vast amount.

Made no difference to my 30 mile commute work this morning or own my way home for 30miles. A couple of streets were 20MPH but the majority of my drive was 40+ MPH.