20mph in Wales - why???

[Flpwer]

I don't understand why Mark Drakeford has done this - surely this will just cause more road rage??? Is this a money-making ploy because they know a lot of people will probably drive over it as 20mph feels so unnatural.

Yet france as a 18mph speed limit in built up areas, has a long established tourist tax & regulates holiday cottages.... attracts more business and tourists than UK

I live in one of the areas that first brought this in. Other than a few numpties, everyone ignores it and drives at 30. It’s pointless.

I like driving at 20mph ( well 40kmh where I am).
Makes near zero difference to the time it takes to get anywhere, as so much time is usually spent stopped anyway at junctions, lights, behind busses etc.
Isn’t there statistic that the average speed in London is now less than Victorian times?

And all this bollocks about “Now I’ll be distracted watching the speedo”. People shouldn’t be driving if they can’t reasonably estimate their speed and an occasional glance down.

I’m all for it! They could raise the limit to 80 on the motorways though.

It’s all about the money they can make in speeding fines, under the guise of health and safety.
It doesn’t affect pollution. Your car might give out less fumes, but for a longer period of time.

But Wales doesn’t have 20mph in built up areas! It has it as default everywhere!

I live semi rurally and we were one of the pilot areas. No one walks here outside of school drop off time. I’d support 20mph then, but the rest of the time, everyone drives as there is no where to walk to. No pedestrians are killed here as there are no pedestrians.

I’d support reducing speed limits in target areas. I’d support it on some rural NSL roads for the reasons posters have highlighted here. But not as a blanket default.

I think this is more about the identity Drakeford wants for Wales ( innovative! Progressive!) rather than a well targeted, evidenced and though through policy.

@brightdayloomingdarkThe law will change the speed limit on about 35% of Welsh roads where lamp-posts are no more than 200 yards (183m) apart

So not a blanket 20mph speed limit.

Perhaps people don't walk or for that matter, cycle, because of too many cars, going too fast?

We have 20mph through our seaside town (in England). Apart from the inevitable male twats and bikers, by and large people stick to it with few grumbles. It's part of the Healthy Streets initiative. Don't see why it's such a big deal personally, unless people have anger/small dick issues

As much as I dislike Drakeford I think it's a good idea, however as a cyclist I am worried that the already terrifying for cyclists national speed limit roads will have dangerous drivers going even faster and overtaking more to make up the time. We'll see though.

We live near a road that I THINK is remaining 30mph but it's really tricky to find out for sure. If a road still has the 30mph indicator on the approach as of today I am guessing that is staying at the higher speed limit? I've heard conflicting things about what is happening with this one and I know it's a road where speed camera vans sometimes sit anyway.

It's the fact that where I live, you'll be driving at 20 for a long time before you can hit a faster road.
So when I go to the shopping park today, that's a 7 mile journey pretty much all at 20, which is going to add more than 1 minute onto my journey. And my car does not like 20.

Just dropped my daughter to work. We live in South Wales, was stopped by police. An instant 3 points on your licence if caught. Their advice “if there’s no signs telling you otherwise it’s 20mph, the main trunk road where I live and in Cardiff going to 20mph also parts of the M4. So the motorway will go from 70 to 20 with not much notice. Then to 50, 20 then back to 70. Their anticipating lots of crashes on that stretch of road”

Thanks @MariePaperRoses for the info. Can I ask, how will everyone know about the roads being 20 mph? Is it common knowledge? If I stick to your list, hardly anywhere on my route will be changed but will everyone else know?!

If it's the lamp post rule then that would be different to your list - which I am grateful for btw!

We have the 20mph limit and its awful.

I don't mind it through the town centre where there are lots of people but the blanket limit is ridiculous.

It means that streets have become never ending lines of moving cars, it's harder for pedestrians to cross (constant stream of cars), people use their phones more at the wheel, and there have been far more near misses and more accidents (there were almost none before)

6 months on and the majority of residents think that it has had a negative impact on the town.

I'm not sure I follow, where in the M4 will it be 20mph?

I'd like to see the evidence of that myself tbh because it sounds like a load of old scaremongering shite

Because everyone does 38 in 30 zones so at least now they'll only do 28 in the 20 zones.

Plenty of 30kph (18.6mph) limits in Europe. They seem to manage.

You've got my vote there!

Even when they're stationary they clutter the place up, making the street look untidy.

It’s been introduced round here, especially outside schools which ought to be a good thing, but I’ve noticed parents and kids are darting across the road instead of walking a bit further to the pedestrian crossing!

I don’t know the names of the junctions but I know what stretch. Just seen evidence on the website also. Thankfully I break rules so 20mph doesn’t apply to me 👍🏻

It uses less fuel to travel more slowly and there are also much lower emissions from brakes and tyres at slow speeds - the fuel usage/emissions isn't constant regardless of speed

What source are you using for this? Because most of the emissions data I've seen for cars shows optimal emissions somewhere between 30mph and roughly 56mph pretty solidly over the past 40 years. Below 30 and above approx 60 and emissions rise.

20 on residential roads makes sense, potentially with pedestrian priority as in much of Europe. On main roads you are potentially increasing emissions without making a difference to safety.

Outside of residential roads accidents are more likely to be due to driving recklessly than a child running out in the road. Reckless drivers currently ignoring 30mph are unlikely to be influenced by 20mph, however many pictures of photogenic children politicians use and on those roads its smacks of gesture politics instead of addressing the root causes of the accidents.

Ignore me Maria - someone has just told me that signs have gone up on a road that isn't on your list!

Deeside area, by any chance?
Nightmare!

Even a market town as large as Denbigh is technically 'rural', the definition includes any settlement of less than 10k people.

You can't overtake cyclists without speeding over the limit.
@DrMadelineMaxwell then don't overtake, it won't kill you.

It only adds one minute to your journey if your journey is one mile long.
60% of journeys under 2 miles are made by car.

If you were driving for 60 miles on those roads, then you'd now be driving for 3 hours, not 2.
I'd like you to find me an example of where you would be driving for 60 miles on 20mph roads. 60 miles from where I live would get me all the way to Corris in one direction, Warrington in another, or alternatively somewhere in the middle of the Irish Sea beyond Holyhead if I headed west. Almost all of those journeys would be along A roads, with only short sections of 20 through towns or villages.

I’ve yet to see a credible reason on this thread why 20mph would be more detrimental than staying at 30mph.
If it does turn out worse then I’m sure there’ll be another political party can be voted in to reverse it.