Page 5 | 20mph in Wales - why???

Flpwer · 2023-09-16T14:28:22+00:00

I don't understand why Mark Drakeford has done this - surely this will just cause more road rage??? Is this a money-making ploy because they know a lot of people will probably drive over it as 20mph feels so unnatural.

tttigress · 16/09/2023 21:28

What I don't get is, if the speed limit for the UK is 70mph, why do they sell cars that can go over that speed?

You wouldn't allow some one to buy a gun with features that are illegal in the UK, and then just say, oh yeah, please only use it in a way that complies with the law.

Spottywombat · 16/09/2023 22:02

The drive pretty fast, brake to 20mph, accelerate thing happens on the way to Edinburgh now. I have never understood why the main road to Edinburgh is basically an A-road and now it's even worse...

So I know from going there & also crawling around Edinburgh that this is going to be chaos where I live now as there's already road rage, lawless chavs on scramblers on bike paths and general apathy for rules/laws.

tokennamechange · 16/09/2023 22:15

Saschka · 16/09/2023 16:53

But if you're trying to do a quick turnaround as a carer in a rural area where your clients are 10 miles away from each other, crawling along on 20 mph with no cars, houses, or anything other than the odd sheep around of course it's a) going to add a significant amount of time to your overall journey b) feel frustrating and c) not feel like there's any discernible improvement.

Given the size of Wales, they are not all going to be ten miles apart. Within a ten mile radius, maybe. Twenty mile radius even. But not ten miles separating each call, unless you have just the one single carer covering everywhere between Anglesey and Ruthin.

have you tried to get a carer lately lol! there could just be one for the whole of powys given struggles I know people have. Plus agencies usually don't/can't kindly schedule them in geographical order so it's not like there is 60 miles between number 1 and number 6 on the list but you absolutely could end up doing 5 miles between 1 and 2, then 8 miles in a different direction between 2 and 3, then 2 miles down the road for 4, then back up to within a mile of number 1 etc...

thanks @MariePaperRoses

tokennamechange · 16/09/2023 22:17

@MariePaperRoses although looking at it, lots of those aren't newly 20mph roads - some of them are the M4 etc.

WithManyTot · 16/09/2023 22:19

I live in rural Wales, and on our twisty, 1.5 cars wide, high hedgerow roads, 20mph is already more than fast enough if you drive at a speed where you can easily stop easily in the distance you can see is clear. I assume you always drive to be easily able to stop in this distance?

The only real shame is that it is a NSL road so it will say 60, and I'll keep meeting idiots (local & visitors) doing a speed that they cannot stop in the distance they can see is clear, coming towards me.

I'll be pressuring my Senedd member to extend it!

One2threego · 16/09/2023 22:34

@Flpwer you’re in North Wales too? We have a main trunk road, hardly any houses, locals campaigned for 40 to 30 which was crazy enough but they’ve now reduced to 20!! A main A road 😫

Jellykat · 16/09/2023 22:39

WithManyTot · 16/09/2023 22:19

I live in rural Wales, and on our twisty, 1.5 cars wide, high hedgerow roads, 20mph is already more than fast enough if you drive at a speed where you can easily stop easily in the distance you can see is clear. I assume you always drive to be easily able to stop in this distance?

The only real shame is that it is a NSL road so it will say 60, and I'll keep meeting idiots (local & visitors) doing a speed that they cannot stop in the distance they can see is clear, coming towards me.

I'll be pressuring my Senedd member to extend it!

Totally agree with you, same situation here.. blind corners, heavy farm machinery driven by young farmers on their phones, horse riders, wet leaves on road etc and yet its 60mph.. bloody ridiculous

WillowCraft · 16/09/2023 22:43

DrMadelineMaxwell · 16/09/2023 21:12

I live in one of the pilot areas so we've had this for a year now. It has been far from popular and remains so. For many reasons. Mostly because, no, they haven't limited it to only roads in residential areas. They kept one road only through our town at 30mph. The other main roads in and out were taken down to 20mph regardless of how built up they were.

And come tomorrow, they are even taking that one remaining 30mph road down to 20 until they then jump through the hoops of applying exceptions to this to revert it to 30mph.

It is costing a hideous amount of millions of £ in a time when cost of living is not good and the Welsh NHS struggles even more than England to keep to targets.

You can't overtake cyclists without speeding over the limit. It only adds one minute to your journey if your journey is one mile long. If you were driving for 60 miles on those roads, then you'd now be driving for 3 hours, not 2. They say that it lowers emmisions, but how can running your car for a 1/3 longer for every journey do that?

The first few months had many road rage incidents.

And, most worryingly, you have far more pedestrians stepping out into the road assuming that they have so much more time to cross safely, and often basically assuming you'll stop for them.

In a year the average speed on the roads here has dropped from 33mph when we had a 30 limit to 27mph in a 20.

Waste of time, resources and money.

Some of these points are just bonkers.
If the cyclist is going at the speed limit, then don't overtake. There's no need to overtake every single cyclist.
It uses less fuel to travel more slowly and there are also much lower emissions from brakes and tyres at slow speeds - the fuel usage/emissions isn't constant regardless of speed
Most journeys are less than 3 miles. So the effect of driving more slowly will be minimal. A journey is not driving at a steady speed from a to b at the speed limit (unless on the motorway or fast A road). In built up areas there are traffic lights, roundabouts, junctions, bends, slow moving traffic, parked cars etc etc. So the effect of the speed limit is very little compared to all these other things.
And how often would someone travel for an hour in a built up area anyway? Rarely.
I don't believe you about pedestrians throwing themselves under your car, but if they are, at least you'll be unlikely to kill them at 20.
Regardless of all this, even if there was a genuine inconvenience which I don't believe there is, it is worth it to reduce road deaths.

Spottywombat · 16/09/2023 22:44

And yes the situation with carers in Powys is dreadful. Truly dire, it's been fucked up by the lack of medical services generally plus historical issues with outsourcing the service, which hasn't worked. Mental health services are even worse.

Not to mention cross-border discrimination..refusal to pay the hospital bills and tonnes of historical/current issues. More than once I have had relatives advised they will have to wait longer for operations than if they lived in Shropshire.

Brats4kid · 16/09/2023 22:46

If you hit someone driving 20mph it's a 2.5% chance of killing them, compared to a 20% chance of death driving at 30mph. Seems logical to me!

ItsMyGuacamole · 16/09/2023 22:47

I live in Wales. For me, the most difficult thing seems to be that not all roads are 20mph, but signage hasn't been changed. So it's going to be very difficult to know which roads are which speed limit. Yes you can look it up online, but how am I meant to remember?? And how are they going to police it if there aren't signs?

StillWantingADog · 16/09/2023 22:50

I would welcome this in urban areas. Safer for pedestrians, cyclists and children.

in rural areas it makes little sense and although the vast majority will comply a sizeable number will not

Brats4kid · 16/09/2023 22:51

ItsMyGuacamole · 16/09/2023 22:47

I live in Wales. For me, the most difficult thing seems to be that not all roads are 20mph, but signage hasn't been changed. So it's going to be very difficult to know which roads are which speed limit. Yes you can look it up online, but how am I meant to remember?? And how are they going to police it if there aren't signs?

My husband said (he's a driving instructor) if the road has street lights, assume it 20mph unless stated.

PandoraRocks · 16/09/2023 22:52

Because Drakeford is a twat who is dragging Wales into the Dark Ages. The proposed tourist tax, the new Landlord contracts, his policies on holiday cottages and now this stupid speed limit. All guaranteed to ruin business and tourism. This is a guy who can't even find a decent suit never mind run a country!

feejee · 16/09/2023 22:57

I drive into Cardiff for work and very rarely see anyone else going 20. The light up speed sign is nearly always red as the cars go through, very few get a green smily face. Friday i was angily overtaken by a bmw driver on a leafy 2 lane avenue with cars parked down one side. I have found it quite difficult to stick to 20, especially when the cars in front go faster and the one behind is hassling you.

RandomButtons · 16/09/2023 22:57

Saschka · 16/09/2023 16:53

But if you're trying to do a quick turnaround as a carer in a rural area where your clients are 10 miles away from each other, crawling along on 20 mph with no cars, houses, or anything other than the odd sheep around of course it's a) going to add a significant amount of time to your overall journey b) feel frustrating and c) not feel like there's any discernible improvement.

Given the size of Wales, they are not all going to be ten miles apart. Within a ten mile radius, maybe. Twenty mile radius even. But not ten miles separating each call, unless you have just the one single carer covering everywhere between Anglesey and Ruthin.

And even then very little of the journey would be on 20mph roads.

Truemilk · 16/09/2023 23:07

People causing accidents on 30mph roads are most likely speeding already anyway, so these accidents are still going to happen because these people will continue to speed

OoohLaLaLa · 16/09/2023 23:16

I’ve been on the website, took me a while to find the map. Then you have to leave the map to check the key before going back into the map.

It looks like the road going through a village near me will remain 30. The lovely stretch between villages where there’s bugger all? 20.

My village which is plagued by drunk drivers and is single track road? National speed limit.

I’m supportive of reducing speed. I do not support blanket restrictions. I was not consulted/ invited to take part in consultation. There are so many problems with the roads in my area but speed really isn’t one of them.

BeesTreesSeas · 16/09/2023 23:17

I’m in Wales. Think it’s a great idea. It’s about saving lives and the proof that a pedestrian being hit at 20mph is much more likely to survive than if they were hit at 30mph. The extra time it takes to drive through my village is well worth that. A few minutes to potentially save more lives. I don’t understand people’s outrage.

Truemilk · 16/09/2023 23:23

BeesTreesSeas · 16/09/2023 23:17

I’m in Wales. Think it’s a great idea. It’s about saving lives and the proof that a pedestrian being hit at 20mph is much more likely to survive than if they were hit at 30mph. The extra time it takes to drive through my village is well worth that. A few minutes to potentially save more lives. I don’t understand people’s outrage.

People dislike change

I do honestly find it difficult to stick at 20mph but that's because after 15 years I'm so used to driving at 30mph

People will get used to it, it'll just take them a while

And we do all like to have a moan!

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 16/09/2023 23:28

We have it where I live in London and it’s absolutely fine. You just need to get used to it.

I learned to drive on country roads and started out driving in that sort of area. People go much to fast on them for a lot of the bends and terrain.

UsingChangeofName · 17/09/2023 00:06

I heard on the radio yesterday an interview with a Welsh minister (?). He said it would add, on average, one minute to each journey, and save ten lives per year.

But he's clearly making those figures up.
I'm not in Wales, but our Council has made a lot of roads that used to be 30mph into 20mph roads.
It doesn't add on "1minute to a journey" - that's a ridiculous claim. When I have to travel through that part of the City, it adds on a lot more than a single minute. Believe me, I've been traveling in our City for decades and know what a difference it makes to journey times.

I am not in the habit of driving into children. I've managed to avoid doing so in the 40+ years I have been driving, so the fact I am alert and observing all that is going on around mean, tends to mean I don't go around hitting pedestrians when I am driving.
The deaths of pedestrians are overwhelmingly caused by the arseholes traveling at 70 or 80 in a 30mph zone, usually in a stolen car, usually uninsured, usually without a driving licence, and often under the influence of drugs, alcohol, or both. They are likely to do that whether the sign says 30 or 20. This isn't going to save lives at all.

travellinglighter · 17/09/2023 01:08

Wsmi · 16/09/2023 17:07

Because Welsh Labour is just an advanced form of the braindead Westminster government. More stupid and generally a worse version. Making roads slower has nothing to do with safety. It has everything to do with not wanting to invest because this country’s economy is broke. And Wales public finances are in even more trouble, being run by grandpa Drake.

The UK’s has an unofficial population of around 90 million, because of low skilled mass immigration. Economic growth has been close to 0 for years now. We need new roads, new towns, over and under passes, tons of new infrastructure to cope with this population explosion. But much like the general population, central and devolved governments are run by morons. Thickos who couldn’t run a bath. And corrupt to boot, embezzling public funds at every given opportunity.

So instead of building new roads, they come up with these kind of hare brained schemes and the idiotic public falls for it. Hook, line and sinker.

You sound lovely. Apparently everyone is a moron , brain dead, thick and the gullible public just go along with it. We also have a population 23 million larger than the official estimate. Did you count them yourself or did you accidentally watch GB News with your bullshit filter turned off. For the record I do about 12000 miles a year in work, mostly north wales and I’m not bothered. If it saves ten lives a year that’s great.

brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr · 17/09/2023 01:17

It’s just a speed, drive at it, easy, done.

literally nothing at all to get worked up about.

travellinglighter · 17/09/2023 01:18

FormerlyPathologicallyHappy · 16/09/2023 17:32

I think Drakefords a sleeper agent taking wales apart from the inside.

Luckily I never have to go there.

Lucky for you, or lucky for us?