Just restrict dogs over a certain weight/size?

[Stroopwaffels]

The main problem with the proposed law about banning these XL bulldogs appears to be defining exactly what a XL bulldog is, given that so many are part one thing, part another. All that's going to happen is that the irresponsible owners are just going to argue that their dog is something else, and it's going to cost a fortune in kennelling and legal fees while it's all decided.

Wouldn't it be simpler and fairer to come up with some sort of law that says that dogs over a certain height/weight are restricted - they must be chipped with owner's details regularly updated, must be muzzled in public, must be neutered unless you have registered and paid £££ to be an official breeder, must be kept on a lead at all times etc etc etc. It's then far easier for a police officer to whip out a tape measure or scales and say that this dog is either covered by the law, or not.

Yes it would affect people like the woman who lives near me and who has two large Newfoundland dogs which don't appear to be aggressive at all but it's certainly clearer and easier for public and police.

That’s largely already the case if a dog is being cared for properly isn’t it?Specifically XL’s can cost a couple of thousand then you have vets bills for vaccinations, dental care, spaying if required and ongoing insurance , food, training. I certainly couldn’t afford to keep a dog and wouldn’t be prepared to restructure my budget to be able to do so.

I don’t think there’s an argument that there should an inherent right to own an animal.

Legal bans of guns and knives don't make a huge impact? Why does America have such higher rates of gun violence than we do? Don't you think tighter legislation on gun ownership would reduce it?

We don't have zero gun crime here, and we do have knife crime of course but we have less of both than if guns and knives were legalised. A breed ban would be much more effective in conjunction with other measures - licensing, leash and muzzle requirements, education and training - rather than as a standalone measure, but as it stands if your neighbour carries a knife or a gun then you can report them. If they have an xl bully, you can't. And if that dog decides to attack, it really will do a lot more damage than a small dog because as we've seen it takes numerous grown men to try to pull one of these off its victim whereas an adult can pick up a chihuahua and kick it over a wall if they want. If you had to choose between being attacked by a vicious chihuahua with its prey drive activated or a vicious xl bully with its prey drive activated you know very well you'd pick the chi. And you'd walk alway from the encounter too. Don't try to pretend that's not true because it really doesn't help the argument!

I grew up with a 14 stone Irish wolfhound who was giant even by breed standard. He was scared of his own shadow, never ever showed aggression (worst security ever) and let the kitten we had eat out of his food bown when he gave him a swipe as he was too daft to know what to do instead.

Also to those saying that a Jack Russel size dog couldn't kill an adult you're probably right, but they're about the same size as a newborn and could do untold damage if not properly supervised and a new born hasn't got the ability to move out of harm's way.

I don't know how I feel about the ban on XL Bully's, I think the problem is there are already people out there who have them for status and who can't control them and there have already been several deaths attributed to the type of dog. For every gentle giant there's x number of dogs bred and raised for attack, whereas you don't get that with wolfhounds st Bernards etc. But then of course any big dog could snap, any size dog could. Cats scratch and bite too, a large boa could crush someone.

Banning dogs on size is not a fair course of action but I would support licensing.

No.... it was a neighbours dog.
It strangely hasn't put him off dogs and we foster for one of the local rescues .... we've had all sorts of dogs stay with us for extended periods of time and most have been brilliant even if they didn't have much training.... only dog that wa ever a problem was a friends dachshund who was to stay with us for some weeks and we lasted one night.... it was savage and bit us .... drew blood etc... we were terrified to move.... friend has since done doggy training classes etc...

Licenses would be far more effective.

I have a large breed bully. Not an XL American, but a similar type. Although I have breed papers, and am a responsible owner, the fear amongst myself and other owners is palpable, because 100's of non pit bull dogs are seized and pts every year because of 'looks'.

It's fucking sad that bad owners with bite sleeves and backyard crossbreeds mean I'm now scared for my dogs.

It's tricky. You can't just go by size. A study looking at the 238 deaths by dogs in the US over a 20 year period and Pit Bulls and Pit bull mixes killed the vast majority at 66, are about a third bigger than our Staffies. Rottweilers next at 39, who are bigger, German Shepherds 17, Huskies 15, Makamutes 12, Dobermans 9, Chow Chow (not big) 8,. @zingally - St Bernards and Great Danes tied at 7. But labradors and lab mixes are responsible for 5, and West Highland Terrier and Cocker one each. And a few others.
Males over 6 times more likely, entire males 2.6 times more likely.
24% were unrestrained off owners property. 58% unrestrained on owners property. 17% were restrained on owners property. 1% restrained off owners property.
She it doesn't really seem that keeping digs in public over X size is the answer. But licensing digs and charging far more for entire dogs. More designated dog parks.
But the vast majority of fatalities occurs in the owners home - how can that be prevented?

It is. But we all know it's not going to happen.

I was listening to a radio show earlier and someone called in saying that during and post Covid 'drug dealers on his estate transitioned to XL breeders' and that box rooms had turned into puppy farms and the worst of the worst were breeding these dogs and producing huge litters...

The horse has bolted and the stable door can't be shut plus we simply don't have the government capable of enacting any meaningful change and proper legislation. It won't be a priority with any new government either.

It is grim and I suspect many more maulings and deaths will happen because these dogs seem to overwhelmingly be in the wrong hands.

but with so many people on here calling for licensing, (and to be fair, I am one of them) we still haven't addressed the fundamental question - who will pay to enforce it? And how do you enforce it?

After all, the drug dealer with an XL bully mentioned above can perfectly easily get a license and his dog can still be dangerous.

Unless you bring in very specific things attached to that license, and unless you have the power to enforce it, then licensing is not going to help.

Dog owners are registered via the legally required micro chip in our dogs also via our vets and our insurers. We also are legally required to tag our dogs with our name and address. It's not Betty and her geriatric Irish setter who do all the above you need to worry about, it's finding a way to make people do it who just don't and who have complete disregard for the law these are the people with the out of control dogs.

I have huge dogs I would support a muzzle law when out in public. Its not detrimental to a dog if you train them to it. And it's easier to identify the flipping scallys.

Leash and muzzles, just had a big dog try to attack my little one yesterday. We had a gorgeous doberman, soft as anything, but were still always responsible and aware she may scare people, stereotypes etc. It's the type of owners who cause the problems, untrained, too strong, blasé oh they won't bite...