Just restrict dogs over a certain weight/size?

[Stroopwaffels]

The main problem with the proposed law about banning these XL bulldogs appears to be defining exactly what a XL bulldog is, given that so many are part one thing, part another. All that's going to happen is that the irresponsible owners are just going to argue that their dog is something else, and it's going to cost a fortune in kennelling and legal fees while it's all decided.

Wouldn't it be simpler and fairer to come up with some sort of law that says that dogs over a certain height/weight are restricted - they must be chipped with owner's details regularly updated, must be muzzled in public, must be neutered unless you have registered and paid £££ to be an official breeder, must be kept on a lead at all times etc etc etc. It's then far easier for a police officer to whip out a tape measure or scales and say that this dog is either covered by the law, or not.

Yes it would affect people like the woman who lives near me and who has two large Newfoundland dogs which don't appear to be aggressive at all but it's certainly clearer and easier for public and police.

I don’t agree that we should restrict dogs over a certain height/weight (where would you draw the line? There are many enormous, gentle breeds, such as the Newfie and St Bernard) but I firmly believe that dog ownership should be subject to licensing and that backyard breeding should be banned as genetics have just as much of a role as poor ownership in what makes a dangerous dog.

When you hear of yet another attack, it’s always the same calibre of owner, and you can bet they got the dog from someone who has no idea what they’re doing when they breed their dogs for a bit of cash, with no scruples over who they sell the pups to.

That is patently untrue. Small dogs when aggressive can just as much damage and harm.

It is fact that large and giant pedigree dogs (to differentiate between mixed breeds / mongrels) usually have gentler natures than smaller breeds but that is not the main point here.

The main point is that you think an adult can easily stop an aggressive dog acting like an aggressive wild animal simply because of it's small size and you are fundamentally mistaken.

Yes. Rules for dogs over a certain weight is the way forward. Because breeds are hard to define, and the bigger the dog the more dangerous it is.

Yorkshire terriers could kill someone if they got lucky. But you are far more likely to be killed by a GSD.

Microchips.
Compulsary insurance.
Muzzled and on lead in public spaces unless working exemption.

@DustyLee123 an adult? when? I know Jack Russell's have killed babies.

A family member has a Newfie and while it’s a lovely dog, they can’t control it and it can’t go off lead as it knocks people over and is a danger to smaller dogs as it doesn’t know it’s own size, which is no life for a large working breed imo. It’s also as thick as mince, sheds like fuck and drools everywhere 😫

@StBrides have any toy dogs killed adults in the UK?

That Calgary model is interesting. Counter intuitive perhaps in not banking breeds or limiting numbers.

My dogs are around 12 stone each. Good recall, kept on leeds around people but model citizens. They are dog friendly in the best way of not being bothered and would let anyone in the house as they love company. My grouch is the poor behaviour of the smaller breeds whose owners haven’t felt obliged to train and socialise. I like the Calgary suggestions. Much there that would challenge lots of poor pet owner behaviour.

The bloody fur baby mentality has a lot to answer for!! All you twatting idiots who think you're so big and clever owning a dog bred purely to be intimidating have caused an absolute fucking car crash of a situation.

The prospect of Golden Retrievers, Springers Spaniels etc etc having to be kept muzzled and on the lead purely because you wanted the latest fucking fad just to go along with your inflated egos and lips. You didn't want a pet, you wanted something put on facebook. To show off to your equally twatty mates. Well, well done, good for you for potentially ruining dog ownership for hundreds of thousands of decent people who genuinely want a dog as a pet that poses no threat to others.

There are so many hundreds of dog breeds to choose from that make suitable pets and pose little to not threat to other people of animals even if they are badly bred or reared. XL bully/American Staff owners don't want a pet though. Their whole existence is focused on showing off. You selfish, selfish bastards.

Not true.
when a dogs pray drive kicks in it’s very difficult to get them to let go of anything.

Ok maybe savage was the wrong word, i dont want to savaged bitten or nipped is that better wording?

Also Pyrenean mountain dogs and Bernese mountain dogs.

I don't think size/weight is the way to go, it looked like a staffy size dog who was chewing on that lads arm in Walsall, didn't look large enough to be an XL bully (the breed wasn't in the news story I read, sorry if I'm wrong), Staffies are quite short so if you wanted to include all breeds that have recently attacked someone then you're going to have to have the height limit quite low, some are the size of spaniels!

If it's going on weight that seems unfair (my dog was under 20kg in her prime, she was spayed late in life due to pyo and ballooned and we are struggling to get it back off, she's 13 and never so much as looked at someone the wrong way) and could well cause the idiots who want a dodgy dog to just underfeed their dogs to keep them under the weight threshold

There needs to be more dog wardens, enforced leash laws and enclosed dog parks that are public use, there was one where we used to live and it was great, but here the only ones are pay per hour and all out in the sticks. If dogs had to be on a 6ft lead outside of these off lead areas (which should be in most/all large parks ideally, so there's no excuse not to use one) and there were big fines for dogs not on lead (unless working) that would curb people letting them run all about the place out of control. The problem would be that the dogs in the park could be at risk, we didn't have many problems at the dog park but obviously scraps did happen occasionally, maybe separate sections for small and large dogs like they do in the USA.

More dog wardens to report to and follow up on reports of our of control dogs, in this I would absolutely include dogs who are dragging their owners around, jumping and barking at people, yes some non aggressive dogs do this out of excitement/lack of training, but it would encourage people to put more effort into training.

Put this info on adverts on the TV/radio/bus stops, have an easy to remember number for the dog warden, enforce the lead fines and make the punishment for owning an aggressive dog prison time (and being Ramsey Bolton-ed if it attacks someone)

I agree but I don't agree with being on a lead always. The reason a lot of dogs attack is because of lack of exercise. Big dogs need to be able to run around and not everyone has a garden.
Muzzle fine, not off lead near a playground fine but large fields or parks or forest they should be able to run around

Have any great Danes?

The policy of generic muzzling wouldn’t make any difference to the owners of these dogs who generally won’t comply.

What are these techniques you mention?

That is patently untrue. Small dogs when aggressive can just as much damage and harm.

This might be the stupidest thing I’ve ever read on one of these threads. There is no way a border terrier or a whippet or a chihuahua could cause anywhere near the level of damage a bull breed, a cane corso or a mastiff could.

Ive owned many dogs, trained and shown them. Dogs behave for me, apart from a Staff my ex owned. It was utterly vile, nasty piece of work. It had hate in its eyes when it looked at me. I still have scars on my arms from it. I refused to have it near me or to my house.

Size is irrelevant. Its the dogs temperament and jaw strength. I hate any staff type mixes of dogs. Ban cannot come soon enough 🦴🐾🐶

@StBrides I haven't said they have? However you said small dogs can do just as much harm? In response to "rat on a rope"...

@SaturdayGiraffe from your link:

Friendly reminder that pitbull slander is one small step away from alt-right racism.

"This group is only x% of the population but does y% of the violence" is quite literally neonazi talking point.

that’s some impressive hyperbolic anthropomorphism. Five stars for proving the point that some owners simply shouldn’t be in charge of any animal. They simply can’t respect the basic fact they’re not human and psychologically work very, very differently.

@AnchorWHAT you can use whatever wording you like. However you said you didn't want to be perceived as dumb, so just a helpful tip!

There are several large breeds which wouldn't manage a muzzle e.g. Newfoundlands etc. Plenty of large dogs have no history of attacking.

I don't think I've ever heard of an attack leading to serious injuries from such gentle giants as Great Danes, Irish Wolf hounds.

We have a reasonable amount of research sadly of attacks surely a study could be conducted to identify key risks apply that and carry out reviews to expand banned breeds if needed.

I think Calgary found that education was the key to reducing dangerous dog behaviour and irresponsible ownership. They use licensing and fines to fund education around welfare and behaviour.

They are not the only state/country to repeal BSL either. Italy, Spain, Germany, and the Netherlands have all repealed their BSL laws after research has proven it to be ineffective in reducing the number of hospitalisations due to dog-related injuries.

There was a Panorama show in January this year which looked into where these dogs are coming from. They are primarily being bred by county lines dealers and criminals who are making tens of thousands a month from them. Do we really believe these people will just give up a commodity that earns them more than drugs ever did because the law says they have to?

BSL didn't reduce the number of Pitbulls in the UK nor did it reduce the number of Pitbull related deaths. I have no idea why anyone is in support of adding more breeds to BSL. It does absolutely nothing to resolve the problems caused by irresponsible ownership.

How about a tweak. Ban any dog an average adult woman couldn’t beat in a fight.

We ban carrying knives with blades > 3” because of their potential to fatally injure. Do the same with dogs.

I love dogs, grew up with an Irish wolfie & granny had dobermans. But some of the arguments people use to justify their dogs is akin to the crazy gun arguments. Too many people are plain thick.