Just restrict dogs over a certain weight/size?

[Stroopwaffels]

The main problem with the proposed law about banning these XL bulldogs appears to be defining exactly what a XL bulldog is, given that so many are part one thing, part another. All that's going to happen is that the irresponsible owners are just going to argue that their dog is something else, and it's going to cost a fortune in kennelling and legal fees while it's all decided.

Wouldn't it be simpler and fairer to come up with some sort of law that says that dogs over a certain height/weight are restricted - they must be chipped with owner's details regularly updated, must be muzzled in public, must be neutered unless you have registered and paid £££ to be an official breeder, must be kept on a lead at all times etc etc etc. It's then far easier for a police officer to whip out a tape measure or scales and say that this dog is either covered by the law, or not.

Yes it would affect people like the woman who lives near me and who has two large Newfoundland dogs which don't appear to be aggressive at all but it's certainly clearer and easier for public and police.

Pisses

The police really want to be weighing and measuring random dogs. Imagine the pleasure it will bring them. Better than catching criminals certainly.

Calgary is a city, not a province, state or country. Its bylaw has all dogs registered and issues fines for chasing, biting, any sort of antisocial behaviour. The city invests in animal control. That's why there's the 70-80% drop in dog attacks

It's much more doable on a smaller scale of a city than a country of 65 million where infrastructure is shot all to hell and there's no public investment.

Setting up a legally required licencing system for all dogs, with an annual charge, to fund monitoring and policing policies like the Calgary bylaws would be a massive undertaking in the UK and I don't think the political will is there.

This feckless government would rather make announcements about completely ungovernable laws to attract headlines than address the problem itself.

@YapYap2023 presumably these people would be able to prove they can care for their pet and pick up after them, giving them the time and training needed? I’m not talking about these people I’m talking about the idiots buying dogs and not taking care of them properly effectively making them other peoples problem and unfortunately this continues to rise

@Mountainhowl that’s fine I’m assuming you take reasonable steps though to stop your dog just having litter after litter Willy nilly? A lot don’t

My DD was bitten by our Yorkshire terrier (almost took her eye out) and got rehomed to a woman with no DC or DGC, I've been bitten by a rottweiler when I was a teen (in a park, luckily owner jumped straight in, so damage was a singular bite that wasn't fixed) and my DS has been bitten by our neighbours Japanese Akita. All different dogs, all different bite strengths. All fucking terrifying.
Licensing would probably be the best way forward but requires the most legal framework and effort.

@AlaskaThunderfuckHiiiiiiiii

Of course, what I'm saying is that spaying/neutering shouldn't be a requirement for a dog to exist unless it's going to be bred from, there are other reasons responsible owners have for keeping their dog intact.

If we bring back licences then we could do something like spay/neuter discount vouchers with the profits, which will encourage those who want to neuter but struggle with the £300+ cost for a bitch spay, and we could have an enhanced license for those who are intact, at a higher cost, and could include DNA profiling as part of this, so that if a dog attacks and it is found to be related to one of these dogs then that can be traced back and the breeder punished too. This would encourage breeders to really vet their potential puppy buyers

This thread is bizarre.

All dogs can kill or maim. Yes. Even that yorkie or westie or the chihuahua. They could remove eyes ears fingers and, if they went for the jugular they could kill. Babies have died. Or don't they count as they weren't an adult?

There are dog attacks every week but majority don't make the news. Of course it's the Staffie / pitbull / XL bully types that make the news. It feeds into the "them" and "us" PLUs / NPLUs classist thing we have going on in the U.K. ("naice people like us wouldn't own such a dog" etc)

look at what dogs have been bred for. If they were bred for ratting or driving badgers out of their sets, then yes that dog will have a prey drive.

And once the prey drive is activated an adult would have difficulty over powering it.

And then it doesn't matter whether it is a big dog or a small dog doing the damage.

Yes training helps. But that is part of responsible ownership. However we have a problem in the U.K. with drugs and county lines and also with status / status symbols.

More needs to be done to deal with these social issues in order to stop the dog attacks.

If people don't need the dogs, if county lines gangs don't breed them, etc then their number will automatically reduce.

There's another thread-I think it's still running-where people are boasting about how "protective" their dogs are, and how they snarl and bark at anybody "suspicious" looking who approaches them. It really isn't a huge leap from that to the owners if these XL Bullies.....

I’m uneasy about DNA testing being used to determine the fate of a dog that hasn’t put a foot wrong. I had my rescue dog DNA tested out of pure curiosity and his result came back as absolute mutt (as expected!) but part of that mutt turned out to be a small percentage of APBT. Phenotypically, he looks nothing like an APBT so it was a huge surprise to discover that in his results!

I never tell anyone about that part of his DNA because I don’t know where I would stand legally if he was reported as being part APBT, based on it being a banned breed in the UK. It’s a small percentage of his genetic makeup, unreflected in his outward appearance, but it’s still there.

I agree with the OP. And I say this as someone who has owned gentle, large dog breeds. Having those conditions imposed would not be a problem for responsible owners.

@WetBandits at least you are aware. And what a responsible owner you are in the first place - getting dna checked.

As you are aware and a responsible owner, I imagine you keep a close eye and are on top of training.

However it isn't you that is the problem here.

And fwiw - I don't think a blanket euthanasia requirement will be brought in. Too expensive and doesn't address the actual issues. A bit like banning guns and knives. Legal bans do not make a huge impact.

Educating granny that this type of dog could kill her grandkids and perhaps a different breed would be more appropriate - that would help.

have you ever met a chihuahua?

if any dog needs to be on a lead with a muzzle .... its that one. probably should be registered with the police too. they look like they are planning serial murders.

on the other hand... there are absolutely massive dogs with zero aggression

Totally agree.

I am wary around small dogs (I have the scarred knees as a reminder of why).

But I'm terrified of chihuahuas. They look scary!!!

Fwiw my lab is also terrified of small dogs and gets very skittish as they come towards us and then bolts straight past them and waits for me a few metres beyond!!!

But that’s because they’re responsible owners! We don’t spend anything like £400 and we don’t need daycare or a dog walker as we literally have people queuing up to walk our super soft Labrador when we’re are work, but of course we pay for insurance, decent food and training!

There’s a woman who lives on my street who has 3 massive XL bullies (and the inflated lips mentioned above) with 4 young girls including a baby in a small 3 bedroom house with a tiny garden. They are only ever walked once round the cul-de-sac and they spend the rest of the day throwing themselves at the window when anyone walks past. One jumped out of the window and ran into my friend’s house and attacked her cocker spaniel. The police wouldn’t do anything as it’s a dog on dog attack and when she rang the council they said, “Oh not them again”. Of course she is breeding them and driving round on a Range Rover with a bully related private number plate despite not working. I really hope she has to get rid of them as they’re terrorising what is otherwise a nice, rural street.

There are dog attacks every week but majority don't make the news. Of course it's the Staffie / pitbull / XL bully types that make the news. It feeds into the "them" and "us" PLUs / NPLUs classist thing we have going on in the U.K. ("naice people like us wouldn't own such a dog" etc)

Any time a person is killed by a dog it makes the news regardless of the breed.

This!! Until there are enough police/dog wardens around to check chips/licenses it will be pointless to make any laws.

Compulsory registration, licence and third party liability insurance for all dogs would sort out a lot of problems.
Let the insurance industry measure the risk and charge accordingly. Its what they are good at.

Yep, makes me cringe! My dog snarled and growled at a man who was closely following and calling out to me on the otherwise empty beach, in the dark, telling me to stop so he could ‘talk to me’ as he got closer and closer. I was terrified of him and so was my dog, but I’m ever thankful that my dog expressed his own fear by snarling and making himself look scary, because it made the man back off. If he had continued to follow, I think my next ‘plan’ would probably have been to let my dog off the lead to chase him away. I have no idea what his intentions were, but I’m glad we didn’t get to find out.

Some idiots would say that my dog was ‘being protective’ but really he was just picking up on my fear whilst simultaneously trying to make the threat to himself go away, he wasn’t protecting me because he doesn’t know how to do that as he’s never been trained in protection. Whatever he thought he was doing just happened to have the effect of eliminating what was probably a genuine threat to my safety.

{Edited to add that he has never been trained in protection - he has, of course, been trained to be a good boy!}

They’re going to do the cheapest thing they can. Always.

And once the prey drive is activated an adult would have difficulty over powering it.

And then it doesn't matter whether it is a big dog or a small dog doing the damage.

That's nonsense though. A cocker spaniel bit me & a passing adult easily subdued it. I saw a jack russell pounce on another dog and then get booted off.

I encounter irresponsible dog owners once every few months. I encounter irresponsible motorists every damn day.

Let's focus on the real issues.

You see normal, sensible people with brains aren't remotely surprised when people like you tt9 come out with shit like that. We've heard all the excuses, all of them and they don't wash I'm afraid.

Only people with very tiny brains come out with "but look at all the nasty chihuahuas" and "what about all the RTAs" actually think people, you know the ones with brains, are going to say "oh yer, duh, why on earth didn't it occur to me fighting off an 8 stone Pitbull cross would be just the same as fighting off a chihuahua" and all swap our cars that we actually need to live for an XLbastard.

Are you all professional idiots or is it just a hobby?

I know it won't be a popular opinion but I don't think people should be allowed to own dogs at all.

They're unpredictable, they're potentially very dangerous, they smell, they crap everywhere, they run up to people that don't want them near them.
I just don't understand why we need to have them as pets at all.

I'd be thrilled if ownership was made illegal, but that'll never happen so I just have to put up with other people's stinky dogs running up to me when I don't want the bloody things anywhere near me at all.
Big or small.