Just restrict dogs over a certain weight/size?

[Stroopwaffels]

The main problem with the proposed law about banning these XL bulldogs appears to be defining exactly what a XL bulldog is, given that so many are part one thing, part another. All that's going to happen is that the irresponsible owners are just going to argue that their dog is something else, and it's going to cost a fortune in kennelling and legal fees while it's all decided.

Wouldn't it be simpler and fairer to come up with some sort of law that says that dogs over a certain height/weight are restricted - they must be chipped with owner's details regularly updated, must be muzzled in public, must be neutered unless you have registered and paid £££ to be an official breeder, must be kept on a lead at all times etc etc etc. It's then far easier for a police officer to whip out a tape measure or scales and say that this dog is either covered by the law, or not.

Yes it would affect people like the woman who lives near me and who has two large Newfoundland dogs which don't appear to be aggressive at all but it's certainly clearer and easier for public and police.

I agree about breeders. and buying from them being illegal.

But it will take really big consistent advertising to get that message across and get people to understand the consequences etc.

And still many won't care!

A child was killed last year by a dog that someone got (Bought?) in a pub the week before, after being told it was aggressive/not good with other dogs.
I'm not convinced that someone who takes(or buys) a aggressive dog on a whim from a bloke in a pub will be invested in training it or getting a licence.
Last year I was waiting to pay for some stuff in a pet shop 10 minutes before closing. A woman came in holding a puppy that she'd apparently just collected. She basically accosted a shop assistant and asked what she would need for it (food, leash, bed etc) I'm sorry but I would judge both the seller and the buyer of the dog in this instance that she was completely unprepared.

I own big breed dogs (Irish wolfhounds and standard poodle). i completely support restrictions on all dogs over a specific size weight. my dogs are neutered and well trained, including muzzle. they are also very gentle. I’m willing to register them, and do all that is required. And yes, if there would be any reasonable doubt I would rather have them euthanised than risk anything.
You never know what goes on inside a dog. Pain, being scared, and all big dogs can kill. A toy poodle is going to hurt you, but not kill.

I agree with you, I’d really like to see a proper campaign tackling the source of the problem.

I do think it's a good idea, but it won't make bad dog owners better dog owners

@Milkkbottles no it won’t, but almost all legislation doesn’t stop everyone committing the crimes legislated for. It does, however, exist and creates very clear boundaries about what is an isn’t acceptable in society. There is an impact from just formally having it in place.

If banning certain breeds isn't going to be effective then all dogs should be muzzled in public places. Much easier to enforce if it's a blanket all dogs rule, not having to check specific breeds etc. Dog owners should have to pay a licence fee or similar to fund dog wardens who could enforce keeping dogs under control. Part of the problem is that some dog owners are not at all in control of their owners but it's down to the police to enforce this and they can barely manage to investigate armed robberies.

A child was killed last year by a dog that someone got (Bought?) in a pub the week before, after being told it was aggressive/not good with other dogs.
I'm not convinced that someone who takes(or buys) a aggressive dog on a whim from a bloke in a pub will be invested in training it or getting a licence

but if there was legislation around licensing, ownership and/or breed there would be an avenue for anyone witnessing this to alert authorities. Currently, if you rang the police and told them you’d witnessed the above there’s very little they could do.

I don’t think that there would always be someone prepared to alert the authorities but at the moment there is no cause for any authority to take a report like this seriously. They’re in the position of only being able to take action after any worse-case-scenario has happened. We don’t allow them to be anything but reactive.

My family are very big animal people and have had various animals over the years including wild animals that we have had to have licenses for and insurances also.

We have also had many different breeds of dogs over the years - we currently have a xl breed of dog - and have always felt that any dog owner of any breed should need a license for it and should attend dog training classes.
All dog breeds no matter what size can attack and can scar/kill a child/adult.
The dogs I have known attack over the last couple of years have been a Jack Russell/staff, a Labrador, a cocker spaniel and a French bull dog. I have met some xl bully’s and they have been some of the most gentle giants I have ever met, BUT they have had excellent training and owners who aware of how much work the breed needs to be a good family pet. I have also met a couple of owners of xl bully’s who have no clue and have bought them as some kind of statement dog - these owners are the problem. All dog breeds should have owners who are willing to put the hard work in with any dog they choose to own big or small.

I fully support dog licenses and that part of the license should be all dog owners participate in dog training classes from the puppy stage then yearly so that the dog doesn’t fall into bad habits.
All dogs should be required to be on leads in public places, and only be allowed off lead in dog secured areas.

The government should be making all dog owners responsible for their dogs not just the xl bully owners.

If the police cannot be bothered to investigate shoplifting where they already know the suspects or do anything when a dog kills another dog, why do you think that they will inforce any new dog regulations?

They can determine if something is an XL Bully the same way as they determine if something is a pitbull, by comparing to a certain number of points of reference/ similarity.

So X number of features in common with the definition, it’s a pitbull.

It probably just takes a bit of time to determine what the features should be.

I also fully support dog licences though. It’s nonsense we don’t have them, and leads to mistreatment / neglect of animals as well as animals causing harm to people due to having rubbish owners.

Indeed they are!! my aunt has kept them for decades they are the soppiest things imaginable..

even when my aunt was burgled they just knocked the idiot over and lay on him until she arrived home.. he wasn't hurt but was quite glad.to be released and arrested as he was a bit squashed and rather hot and soggy after 4 hours of being slept on on by 2 great big drooly dogs .. he was lucky that my uncles Jack Ruswll was ewhere or he might well have been found bleeding

It's not as easy as that. A St. Bernard X boxer could easily look like a lean XL bully without being related to them or have the same temperament. The only real way to tell is by DNA.

Agreed. Far more needs to be done. This is a reactionary mode that doesn’t tackle the whole problem.

My neighbours medium sized poodle mix (maybe a cockapoo) came barrelling at me and jumped at me which was not only frightening but it actually scratched me through my trousers. And I’m supposed to be ok with that?

sure it wouldn’t have killed me but it could still have injured and even scarred me. Were i wearing shorts it would have broken my skin for sure.

I was able to speak up for myself and tell her to make sure her dog didn’t touch me again and then report her to the housing manager when she refused to put her dog on a lead but not everyone is able to advocate for themselves and nor should they have to.

We need to look to countries like Germany to see how they handle dog ownership.

. I have met some xl bully’s and they have been some of the most gentle giants I have ever met, BUT they have had excellent training and owners who aware of how much work the breed needs to be a good family pet. I have also met a couple of owners of xl bully’s who have no clue and have bought them as some kind of statement dog - these owners are the problem. All dog breeds should have owners who are willing to put the hard work in with any dog they choose to own big or small.

Agree mostly with this. One of the reasons I don't have a dog is that I think I'm too lazy/not motivated to invest the time in training it properly and walking it adequately. And that would be unfair to the dog itself, and unfair to anyone else we came across.
Although I do think there is more risk with the very large dogs, even well trained ones, that if they are spooked or scared, and might become aggressive, it would be almost impossible to overpower a dog that was 10 stone for example.

Just like @newhere24 I have large/giant dogs and would be happy to comply.

If it stops one more person being killed, or one more child being torn apart I would muzzle and register mine in a heartbeat. I would welcome them being assessed if it meant everyone else’s badly trained and aggressive would also assessed and removed from society. Not because I believe mine would hurt someone, but if it makes it easier to police the idiots by putting on a blanket ban then I have no problem with it. In the long run, it would probably benefit most of us to get rid of the bad and untrained, big or small.

The problem being the idiots won’t comply, they will shout and tantrum about how the world is so unfair on social media rather than thinking ‘yep, I’ve made a potentially dangerous choice, what can I do to make sure my dog does not join those statistics. How can I actively prove I’m responsible enough to own a dog with the potential it has’

At the end of the day, anyone owning such a drivey powerful dog needs to accept they made that choice, I didn’t make the choice to have to encounter it nor do I want to either (although I work with dogs so have 0 choice sadly for me)

My dogs won’t care if they are muzzled or not because they are well trained, gentle and will accept anything I ask of them without question.

So only the rich will be allowed family dogs?

Obviously not killed but in this case permanently disfigured.... my 55yo DH has scars across his face from a toy poodle attack when he was 2.
Impact on him long term is that while he doesn't care much about his appearance, it hates him look quite thuggish and has cost him more senior jobs.
I certainly feel that all dog owners should be required to have their dogs licenced and properly trained.... all dogs

There are some very gentle big breeds as other have mentioned, I do think people should be allowed a dog that they can’t physically control though. My neighbour has a number of German shepherd’s that she has no control over, I see her attempt to walk them and they drag her up the road whilst barking, apparently one attacked another dog and she was unable to stop it. TBH German Shepards are one of the few breeds I am weary of (along with Doberman’s and XL bully’s). Some dogs are just not meant to be pets, they are bred for working. People shouldn’t be able to just go out and buy a dog without knowing about the breed and without knowing what goes into training and exercising it. Sadly a lot of these big dogs have had no training and are often cooped up in flats and not wales enough.

That’s awful @Socksey was it a family dog who attacked your partner?

Not a doggy person at all but I find toy poodles particularly cute and wouldn’t have room for a bigger dog so it’s the one dog I have even vaguely considered although haven’t looked seriously into it .

This seems the most balanced and proportionate response on the whole thread.

Honestly I think it’s just easier to define what an XL Bully is and ban them before they mail more people.

That's an absurd idea and completely impractical. By that system a slender pit bull could be fine but a fat labrador not. Better to enforce microchipping and bring in a breeding licence. Any dogs not owned and registered by a licensed breeder must be spayed/neutered.

Fairer, easier to enforce and would help ensure that dogs with poor or unstable temperament, irrespective of breed, are not bred from which will gradually improve the gene pool.

This is MN... home of some batshit comments about dogs. I have my bingo card ready. Some people on other threads have called for council/HA to ban dogs in their properties. Other comments I have seen have said dog owners have dogs because they are socially inept with fellow humans. Another saying that if a owner fails to pick up a poo, their dog should be seized and PTS.
And the best... it should be legal to carry guns and knives to protect against dogs. Madness!

Lovely gentle giants, or not, I was absolutely terrified of big dogs, as a child. The Great Dane near us was the stuff of nightmares for me…

There should be designated areas for dogs to run around I agree but I don’t think ALL large fields, parks or forests should automatically be that.

As things stands I actively avoid parks and Forrests due to the fear of dogs jumping up at me. If I had kids it would be especially annoying to have to avoid parks. I pay a lot of Council tax and it annoys me that parks are basically no go areas for me.

There needs to be beaches, parks etc for people to walk freely without fear of dogs running around or even dogs there at all, because where dogs are allowed - especially off leash - there is inevitably some owners who don’t clean up which makes walking a much less pleasant expedience.

perhaps not allowing those who don’t have a private garden to own dogs would be a start too. I live in the 4th floor of a flat building and I find it bizarre there are dog owners on my floor.