Another dog attack, man killed, can this just go on?

[IthinkIamAnAlien]

Just on the news - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-66817795

Week after week, there is something wrong with dogs (and the owners) today, I grew up with them and this never, ever happened. Maybe because dogs were treated as dogs and not trophy animals. Awful for everyone.

@dawngreen that attack is what the thread is about - the extremely distressing death of poor Ian Price. It was completely unprovoked, the dogs escaped from a property and attacked his very elderly mother and he died trying to protect her, and she had to witness it.
I wonder which of the reasons you've posted for tail-wagging were why they were wagging their tails as they killed him?

There was 14 years without a single pitbull death. You keep ignoring that. If that's not a success what is?

The dogs that killed Ian Price escaped from a window. BSL would not have prevented it. Even if these dogs had been exempted or were waiting to be exempted they wouldn't have been leashed and muzzled as they escaped from a private home.

BSL is not "flawed". Flawed suggests that it works a little bit but not as much as it could. BSL is utterly ineffective. It hasn't reduced the number of banned breeds in the country. It hasn't reduced the number of deaths caused by banned breeds. It has killed many innocent pets who were deemed friendly by experts but unable to be returned to their owners or rehomed.

Repeating the same action and expecting a different result is usually classified as a sign of insanity. I cannot understand why the public is treating this differently and why they are not up in arms demanding a change that will actually protect them.

There was 14 years without a single pitbull death. You keep ignoring that. If that's not a success what is?

Which 14 years? The only change is they've stopped calling them Pitbulls and started calling them "banned breeds".

I'm not ignoring it - I just don't think it's relevant.

Pitbulls became illegal so XL Bullies came along to take their place. The same thing will happen again when XL's are banned - another breed will come along and be just as dangerous.

Banning Pitbulls didn't reduce dog attacks - it just meant people stopped owning pitbulls and moved on to different breeds.

The dogs that killed Ian Price escaped from a window. BSL would not have prevented it. Even if these dogs had been exempted or were waiting to be exempted they wouldn't have been leashed and muzzled as they escaped from a private home.

Yes, exactly. BSL only applies out in public, and as far as I can see, the vast majority of fatal dog attacks occur on private property. So this "ban" won't make the blindest bit of difference.

I just don't understand, why, with 100s of dog breeds available, unless your intentions are to portray an image, use your dog to intimidate and harm, or to fight, why you would select these things. They were bred to maximise size, strength, tenacity and aggression. Its not a pet, its a weapon. Those defending them are using the same flawed arguments of the US gun lobby. AK 47 guns don't kill people, its the people that own them. Yeah, well, as long as idiots exist we need to manage the risk of having idiots amongst us. That means you can't own a bloody Kalashnikov, and it also means these abominations should be outlawed too.

If people want to let their own dogs kill them at home, that's on them. When they're killing innocent members of the public, something needs to be done. If you think banning won't work, what would you do?

The 11 year old girl was attacked in public

I’d love parents to realise having one in a home with their children is madness but ultimately it’s up to them

I don’t want to people who don’t choose that to have to deal with them

@SomeCatFromJapan Thank you for explaining. Sorry @ChristopherTalken I was thinking of another video not the actual one at the start.

So he had 3 dogs at home, and 2 of them escaped. Why was his garden not secure, and the windows kept shut? And was he at home or work? If the dogs have chased ppl before its a given that he knew what they were like.

Tighter controls around dog ownership and dog breeding.

As it stands, anyone with a dog can breed from them and sell them to total strangers on the internet. There's nobody policing it, nobody making sure the dogs are healthy or of sound temperament. Nobody making sure the new owners have the time, money or knowledge to raise a dog. Nobody to make sure the dog will ever see a vet or attend any kind of training class.

Until the dog breeding laws are tightened, dog attacks will just continue to rise. The XL Bully might get banned but another breed will come along and take their place (after all, that's what happened when the Pitbull got banned).

As PP have said, the current BSL legislation only applies in public. So these dogs will still be kept, unmuzzled, in people's homes - and what happened to Ian Price will continue to happen, because any dog can escape out of a door or through an open gate.

The dog who had attacked the 11yo girl had slipped its collar twice that day. If someone cannot put on something as simple as a properly fitting collar how can they be trusted to put on a properly fitting muzzle?

@Oliotya I think we should look at what other countries have done to reduce the problem which usually involves a combination of education, licensing and actually enforcing the laws they already have in place.

The two dogs who killed poor Ian had been reported for being dangerously out of control twice yet they weren't removed from their owner, their owner was not fined or arrested. Locally, our police force tells you to phone the RSPCA if you report a dangerous dog offense. I suspect other areas are the same.

Yes - I did say the majority of attacks, not all of them.

Ultimately even if every single XL Bully is walked on a lead and muzzled, they can still attack in their homes or if they escape. Banning them is like trying to fix a leak with a sticking plaster.

You need to go much further back.

I don’t mind if more is done. It’s good they will be banned as part of it

Ban anything that can viciously maul a human in the street like that

actually enforcing the laws they already have in place
This is the problem. We keep on coming back to underfunded public services.

But under current law, you can still keep banned breeds as long as you follow the legislation.

Adding XL Bullies to the current "banned list" won't stop them from existing, nor will it stop people from owning them.

You need to change the legislation and change the entire world of dog breeding and dog ownership - which is going to be almost impossible now the flood gates are opened.

Well yeah, I agree. But we can have restrictions on all dogs and ban the XL. I've been flamed numerous times for saying so by people who seem to want no restrictions at all.

Well yeah, I agree. But we can have restrictions on alldogsandban the XL. I've been flamed numerous times for saying so by people who seem to want no restrictions at all

You're trusting the government is going to do something else on top of banning the XL which is naive at best. The government know that BSL is not working. They have known it since they commissioned EFRA to do a report on the effectiveness of BSL in 1996. They also know what does work in other countries because it was included in the EFRA's report and numerous reports since then but they won't do it because they have no appetite to actually solve the problem, they just want votes.

I think you need to appreciate that some people are afraid of dogs and should not be subjected to being approached by an unleashed dog

But under UK law, you can still own banned dog breeds. You just have to follow BSL which is to have them neutered and keep them leashed and muzzled in public.

Banning XL bullies won't stop them existing.

Yes. I am aware. Which is there needs to be additional regulations, as I have said.

Well yeah but that can be said for literally anything of this current government. They're not doing anything about rape or shoplifting, that doesn't mean we might as well legalise it.

Yes as you keep bolding

If someone is stupid enough to keep the animal in their home it is more likely it will be them they maul

I’d prefer lead and muzzle in public if they are intent on keeping the banned bread.

I know a minority don’t want that but finally changes will be made aligned with majority

My point is that keeping them leashed and muzzled in public won't prevent attacks like the one on Ian Price, because those dogs leapt out of a window to attack him in the street, and BSL legislation doesn't cover how you keep your dogs on your private property.

Most dog attacks happen at home/on private properties. BSL legislation won't prevent that.

I'd like to try and answer your question. There are a few reasons why people might choose a bully over other breeds

1. They don't require much grooming, just a bath, ear clean, teeth clean and a nail clip. They don't really shed hair either.

1. They're a nice size, not too big, not too small. Suitable for most size homes.

1. They are easily trained.

1. They're sturdy, and by sturdy I mean if they have accidents they tend to bounce, shake themselves off and are totally fine.

1. They can be as active or lazy as needed. Able to keep up with an active owner or family, equally happy with less active people, as long as the get reasonable exercise.

There are probably many other breeds that also fit the description too.