Another dog attack, man killed, can this just go on?

[IthinkIamAnAlien]

Just on the news - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-66817795

Week after week, there is something wrong with dogs (and the owners) today, I grew up with them and this never, ever happened. Maybe because dogs were treated as dogs and not trophy animals. Awful for everyone.

Looks like it.

Don't these dogs cost loads of money... to buy and to keep (vets bills, food etc). I never understand people that need help from government on various things eg housing, yet spend 1000s on chav dogs... make it make sense!

Right, and responsible people factor those predictable costs in. We know it’s not just the purchase cost of a dog, it’s the food, equipment, insurance, vaccinations. However, adding some random and insane £500 for a dog licence on top of that is ridiculous!

I’ll tell you who could afford that though - the drug dealers who use the Bullies as enforcers. One guy told me he’d bought his special XXL Bully for £3500. It was a young puppy and was enormous already! I’m sure he could afford the £500. But I couldn’t and nether could many families with dogs - perfectly normal non-vicious family dogs.

You’re saving for a car? So you’ve factored in not just the price of the car, but the road tax, the insurance, the MOT, etc? Now imagine someone thought you should pay an extra few thousand pounds a year for a ‘car-owner licence’ which they’ve decided all car owners must have because some twats break the speed limit? It would piss on your car buying plans and the plans of many others, and it would be ridiculous and unfair. An idiotic £500 dog licence is the same.

Big dogs don't need loads of space. Dogs will live happily anywhere. They're just happy to be wherever their owner is.

@brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr I understand that one should go for the bum hole and maybe that would be trickier on a smaller dog? I think I'll start with something large but placid. But yes, ultimate battle against Chad, the swole XXL Bully.

But nobody is required to have insurance (public liability) for their dog, or any sort of equivalent MOT to ensure the dog is safe to be around the public.

You can go down the pub and buy some random monster off a depraved criminal, do nothing else and then let it rip a little kid’s throat out and walk away with a slap on the wrist.

Sounds super sensible to me. rolls eyes very hard

I have a golden retriever and would happily pay for a license for her because I realise owning her is a responsibility that shouldn’t be taken lightly.

Muzzling does sound like a great idea. Hopefully someone would start a petition

Please - from experience I know that’s utter rubbish. Big dogs do require more space - these dogs bad character traits are being exacerbated by the restricted spaces they are commonly kept in. It’s a lack of honesty that is hindering this conversation and how the problem can be resolved

She is delusional. How can she absolutely guarantee her dog will not bite anyone. I would be very worried she might be another statistic in due course.

In a past life I worked in personal injury law.

I would much rather have to say “sorry kids, but you can’t have a dog because your family can’t afford to pay for a dog license” than say what I used to have to say to parents of maimed children with life-altering injuries, which was (more often than not) “sorry but we cannot help you in this matter; claims for injuries caused by dog bites are very difficult to win and, even if you do win, there’s unlikely to be any insurance policy in place to pay out, so you’ll never see any compensation - outside of NHS treatment, you’re going to have to cover any medical and therapy costs yourself”.

And yes, a lot of the dogs in question were small breeds.

Introducing dog licenses with mandatory insurance (as well as changes in law to make claims far easier to prove) would go a long, long way.

That's a silly comparison. Cars have unexpected costs all the time. As do many other things like children or houses or washing machines. You either find the money, or you don't have the thing.

People are importing dogs with cropped ears from countries where it's still legal. And, some people are literally scummy and will do it themselves

Do remember, when you see one of these dogs, that the human might be the dog's rescuer, not its abuser. Someone I know has a rescue dog (not a bull-type) with ears that were cropped before the rescue. Despite a truly dreadful start in life, the dog has a good nature and is now normally behaved.

Oh yes, @wetotter I totally understand that. You can usually tell the difference between a decent person who's rescued a dog and the kind of person who thinks cropped ears look cool and 'ard.

There was a cropped cane corso at Battersea and featured on the Paul O'Grady tv show. She was adopted by a nice regular couple.

Laws are far too lenient. It’s insane when you think about it.

I’m sick and tired of having unsolicited contact with bloody dogs when out in public. Leads at all times unless in designated exercise areas.

Some posters on here are really coming across as cruel, nasty c*s. Almost revelling in dogs being put to sleep.

Has anyone considered how cruel it is to keep a dog on a lead all the time and possibly with a muzzle on too?

We make all the decisions for dogs all the time and control what they do and when, and now you want to take small freedoms and choices away.

I hope if you ever get stuck on a mountain needing search and rescue you don't expect a dog to find you.

And I also hope that if you're ever in a care home and they have a PAT dog that it's a massive bull breed and it gives you a big cuddle.

@VeterinaryCareAssistant Is it cruel to keep a dog on a lead?

And I also hope that if you're ever in a care home and they have a PAT dog that it's a massive bull breed and it gives you a big cuddle.

Why would you want that if someone doesn’t like them?

@Moredrobe yes it is.

It's sensible for a dog to be on a lead whilst next to a road or in a car park, or anywhere else unsafe like a cliff edge etc. but dogs do need to be off lead to run and burn up physical energy as well as being able to choose where to sniff and what to sniff.

Many dogs do enjoy playing with other dogs too, so it's nice for them to run and growl, make noises etc.

Being marched round the streets with a muzzle on, on lead is no fun for the dog, even moreso if they have an anxious owner.

I thought these dogs were banned.

I have a 'friend' on Facebook up in arms as she owns an XL bully. Why the hell would you choose one of these over the hundreds of different types of dog you can choose from? I'm sure some of these dogs are lovely pets but why risk having something that could potentially rip your kids arm off?

@Regholdsworthswaterbed this is what I don’t get
Seemingly normal people choosing a dog that are almost solely responsible for every fatality in the UK in recent years. Surely there’s something else you like not descended from a dog bred to maul things to death?

Muzzling doesn’t stop them mauling you they have paws and claws too you know

once again your going after the wrong end of the leash it’s humans at fault here

I agree it is the other end of the leash, but we can't control them, banning bullies will just mean they look for another breed.
A muzzle would ensure that their badly trained aggressive dogs couldn't inflict death on innocent passers by, might put them off owning them in the first place if it isn't as easy to use them as attack dogs.
Mandatory muzzling for dogs ( maybe above a certain size) in public spaces would at least go further to reducing fatalities and tbh would make a lot of people feel a lot more comfortable around dogs.

@VeterinaryCareAssistant

And I also hope that if you're ever in a care home and they have a PAT dog that it's a massive bull breed and it gives you a big cuddle.

This is a really sinister thing to wish about people who don't like 'massive bull breeds'.

but dogs do need to be off lead to run and burn up physical energy as well as being able to choose where to sniff and what to sniff.

yet they “don’t need space” @VeterinaryCareAssistant ?? You can’t have it both ways. This is why dogs need gardens, where they can run around without causing issues, rather than being cooped up in small flats etc and then allowed to run (often with poor recall) where small children are around.

I’m sorry, I don’t want my child to end up with a life changing injury and we’ve been in THREE situations in the past year where that could have happened with off the lead dogs. That is more important to me than dogs being allowed to run off lead (and responsible dog owners don’t let dogs do that just wherever unless it’s dangerous for the animal ie a road, they think about other people as well).

if you honestly think that that is more important than keeping people particularly young children (who dogs seem to see as a target) I think you really need to take a look at your priorities.