Another dog attack, man killed, can this just go on?

[IthinkIamAnAlien]

Just on the news - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-66817795

Week after week, there is something wrong with dogs (and the owners) today, I grew up with them and this never, ever happened. Maybe because dogs were treated as dogs and not trophy animals. Awful for everyone.

I don’t understand people who have big bull breeds or large guardian dogs when they live in an urban environment. I might like the look of Turkish Kangals but they are hardly suited to an inexperienced owner living in a semi in London.
The same with high energy breeds I had a friend with a Springer / collie cross that needed hours of exercise every day or it would get destructive.

I think there needs to be far more education about dog ownership and dog breeds. In urban environments leads need to be mandatory and large dogs muzzled. Even size is a challenging criteria as dogs like Belgian Malinois aren’t particularly big.

I do think the answer is to ban that breed and all its crosses. That way it's a ban on all variants of pit bulls and pit mixes and whatever breed they can come up with next.

I’m a dog lover, I had dogs growing up and despite wanting one now do not have one due to our current lifestyle not being compatible, IMO, with having a dog.

That said I really think we have to move away from the “it’s not the breed, it’s the owner” mantra that keeps being trotted out. Yes bad owners make bad dogs, but let’s face it there ARE certain breeds that will do more damage than others. I’d take my chances against a feral Jack Russell or Springer Spaniel than an XL Bully any day of the week.

Someone posted a meme on a previous dog attack thread pointing out that plenty of people are accepting that certain breeds have specific inherent instincts - retrievers, ratters, scent dogs, etc but for some reason they won’t accept that some (again not all) breeds are more predisposed to being aggressive than others.

Again all breeds have the potential to be aggressive - I know of a toddler that was attacked by a working sheepdog on his grandparents farm about 10-15 years ago (child was ultimately ok after reconstructive surgery on his leg but the grandfather still took the dog into the barn and shot it within minutes of the attack and then reported the incident to the police) - but considering the low percentage of ownership in this country of these Bully breeds, they make up a disproportionate number of the serious attacks.

What a mean-spirited thing to say! So only rich people can have dogs? I dare you to say that crap to my children. For both of them, our dog is a much-loved companion and for one of them it’s also a huge benefit to their health and well-being. Our dog has never snapped at anyone, been allowed to poo in public without it being picked up - and neither have huge numbers of perfectly normal dogs. The problem is these ‘bred to kill’ breeds and their irresponsible owners not Auntie Doris’s pug.

The number of dog-haters on this thread is shocking and concerning. Shooting and stabbing dogs? Putting down a chihuahua because it’s not muzzled? Ridiculous - but mainly worrying nasty.

I'm not seeing how you would know, based on these statistics, if more people are reporting dog attacks. That's not the same as an increase that's adjusted proportionately. One of the effects of something like this being in the news is often that it prompts more people to report.

These numbers don't go back very far either. I strongly suspect that 30 or 40 years ago the way people dealt with dogs like this was entirely different.

A jump in serious dog bits is something to investigate, but it could be caused by a lot of different factors.

Exactly, and maybe points to exactly why dogs aren’t really the species we should be worrying about most here! (and why I don’t like people who hate dogs)

What a mean-spirited thing to say! So only rich people can have dogs?

Well for starters you need to be able to afford the vet bills, food and any equipment (leash etc.). Some people cannot afford those so they don't have a dog. A hefty licence would make some thoughtless potential owners think twice. People have to go without non essential things for financial reasons, surely this is nothing new? I can't afford to run a car at the moment so I don't have one. My life would be greatly enhanced with a car so I I saving for it. It's not a right and it's not a given.

Dachshunds are very snappy bitey dogs. I've known a few kids over the years bitten in the face by them.

A lot of the small terriers can be be biters too. The only two dogs I know personally that were put down for biting were a Scottish terrier, and a JRT. And I knew a corgi that probably should have been put down.

I like terriers a lot, but they can be aggressive, one person dogs who don't put up with much guff. They often need a more experienced owner.

It's not really about not implementing any policy.

It's about implementing a policy that won't be effective.

It's not easy to do a breed specific ban. What the casual observer sees as a "bullie" often includes a number of totally different breeds. Then you get crossbreeds and dogs that are very mixed. Some may not even be related but look similar when they are crossed with another dog.

Some dog "types" exist that aren't official breeds too.

And then there is the issue that taking out a certain type of dog won't change the behaviour of the people who produce those dogs, or people who want those dogs, or people who want dogs for things like dog-fighting. They will simply use a different breed, and then you have the same problem.

There are a lot of different large breeds known for being aggressive.

Exactly this. No law will stop them, they don't care.
Muzzling always won't stop them either as the people who's dogs kill people are certainly not responsible enough to bother with a muzzle

This is my favourite post of all time

👑

Oh God, this again! Yes hardly a week goes past without some poor innocent passer by being torn apart by terriers .

It's also a period which overlaps the massive rise in dog ownership that arrived with covid.

Small percentage of a larger number is indeed a larger number

We should however be working to get that down. DDA hasn't been effective - those breeds might be less of an issue now, but the crosses that have replaced the few (4?) breeds/types covered in the Act mean the problem has worsened.

People might believe the issue is being tackled - number of these dogs will peak about now, and we'll see a steady decline. The weather will be cooler too (dog attacks rise in hotter weather)

I think breed-based is wrong, but size-based requirement for muzzling in public might be useful. Before we start seeing crosses like cane corso x mastiff

Like the idiot who thinks he is clever teasing the small dog on YouTube. Then will be whining when it bites finally.

At least the police had words with the idiot giving his dog Prime to drink in the heatwave!

Exactly, owners who genuinely love their dogs will be hiring dog fields, trainers, doing enrichment already. I have met some such, usually having adopted from shelter. I met a pocket bully last year that had been treated appallingly but adopted, got veterinary treatment, training and was in a dog show.

Yes, anybody that says "without a shadow of doubt my dog wouldn't attack" is delusional and doesn't really know dogs,at all! An otherwise friendly dog can change due to any number of factors and that is something a responsible dog owner would be aware of.

I mean I’m one way it’s comedy gold for being so unhinged but unfortunate I think the poster mighty no have had comedy in mind.

Rudderneck
I like terriers a lot, but they can be aggressive

Yes; and 'bully' is short for 'bull terrier'. Terriers have a shorter window for socialisation than most breeds, and it ends sooner.

I'd be classified as a dog lover, we always had dogs growing up, and still do, a mixture for pets but also for security purposes on a farm. They are well trained. That can be frightening and or a bit scary for people who drive up to our house or yard. They are never roaming loose when friends or contract workers are about.

About out local town/area there are also a few people with dogs that seems less well looked after, and that seem to be to be frankly dangerous. They are often an accessory for the younger male members of the local gang/drug/crime organizations. As a result, this has resulted in a few serious incidents, courts, etc.

@brownsugarsoymilk maybe
I just worry it will all go underground and then you'll have more mistreated dogs
I feel for staffy owners who are now worrying their dogs will be mistaken for them

I remember when it was GSD that there was a big thing about and we owned one at the time, a small rescue soft as shit one. We actually got burgled and she hid in the wardrobe
Then Doberman, then Rottweilers, then staffy types

Personally would rather round up all the useless owners and put them on as island until the breed dies out but...

Please stop this now how many more threads bashing dog owners. More cars kill people, more people kill people, this is fear mongering and causing harrassment.
Just stop it and go read a book on how to be happy

Man killed now named. This is a very chilling account. The dogs had previous form. So unnecessary.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-66817795

No - posters should not stop expressing their concerns - there is freedom of speech here. Dogs can be a huge danger, as well as a nuisance.

Are people not to say what joy they are to some? Is that wrong too?

Imagine you’re going in a boxing ring to face a dog. It’s a fight, and the dog will attack, and you will need to fight back.

Which dogs would you not fancy your chances against ?

Ban those.