Another dog attack, man killed, can this just go on?

[IthinkIamAnAlien]

Just on the news - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-66817795

Week after week, there is something wrong with dogs (and the owners) today, I grew up with them and this never, ever happened. Maybe because dogs were treated as dogs and not trophy animals. Awful for everyone.

There are no stats on the breed of dog involved in attacks.
No one in the UK collects the data.

There are some pseudo-stats you can find online, but they only reference media reported attacks and are massively distorted by selection bias.

We have to get to the route of the problem if we want to try and solve it and that means tighter restrictions on all dog ownership.

I agree with this. The ban is a short term quick fix. A "breed" isn't that easy to define when we are talking about unregistered breeders and many are crosses rather than pure breed. Plus, there are ill-treated or reactive dogs of all breeds and so a ban on XL bullys won't cover them.

Licensing of dog ownership and enforcement of licensing is the way forward IMO. Every responsible dog owner I know would have no problem with needing a license. I don't think they need to be expensive (having a driving license isn't expensive and cars are very dangerous). But I do think there needs to be a recognition that having a dog isn't a human right and that if you cannot own a dog responsibly then you cannot have one at all.

I think this is a better solution than banning specific breeds or requiring muzzles / leads in public as those things punish responsible dog owners.

The owner of this dog should be charged with manslaughter. The deterents for owning dogs trained to maim, kill or terrify are non existent.

I agree.

Where do you get the information the dogs had been trained to main, kill or terrify?

Yes a manslaughter charge seems appropriate if your dog kills someone. Very sensible contribution.

Tbh, the whole "it's not the breed, it's the owner" shtick reminds me of what we frequently hear from the US regarding the gun control debate..."it's not guns that are the problem, it's gun-owners!"

Yes, there are some responsible owners of XL bullies, just as there are some responsible owners of guns. But the trouble is that there a lot of people who aren't responsible. As such, a ban makes perfect sense to keep innocent people safe. Particularly when owning such a thing isn't a necessity.

I'm sure there will be plenty of outspoken XL bully owners aggrieved by this decision, but they're not worth listening to.

Why on earth any normal, sensible person would want one of these god-awful things as a pet in the first place beats me. If you want a dog, just get a proper one - a Labrador or golden retriever or something. Why the would you want a bully XL?!

It is manslaughter isn’t it?

Stonnall dog attack - live: Man arrested for manslaughter over fatal suspected XL Bully dog mauling

You don't need to know the breeds. You don't need stats to know that a big dog is more deadly than a little one.
My DB has a cockapoo. I think my 1 year old could fight him off. Whereas it would take several grown men to subdue my neighbours akita.

Why are you quoting me and not the PP.

If you are stupid enough to have a XL Bully and it's able to attack someone why should you not be punished?

"BBC Verify reported that ten people died because of dog bite injuries in England and Wales last year.
Last year, there were nearly 22,000 cases of out-of-control dogs causing injury. In 2018, there were just over 16,000."

These stats are so much worse than bear attacks and fatalities in the US - yet there is so much regulation and guidance to the public to avoid dangerous situations with bears. I do think dog ownership in this country needs more regulation - a badly trained larger dog is as deadly as a bear - probably worse as it is conditioned to human beings and has no fear like wildlife would.

Where I live in London, I am horrified to see people living in tiny mid terraces with pocket sized gardens keep large working breeds who need a lot of space and exercise. Of course, they're going to be aggressive. I go running in my local park and have twice come close to being attacked, by a husky, and one of the doodles - owners had them off leash, on their phones not paying any attention to what the dog was doing. I love dogs and grew up with them but it has started filling me with fear as it seems out of control - especially people with the lockdown downs who were never socialised with other dogs/humans.

It's definitely gotten ridiculous in pubs/restaurants/cafes now - most around me, you can barely walk as there's dogs lying about blocking even staff. And I don't enjoy having a nice meal at a restaurant with dogs begging. I really disagree with dogs being treated like human beings - they're wonderful animals who should be respected for what they are (which is NOT toys). It boils down to people wanting pets but not wanting to adjust their lives to fit them in or look after them properly.

He has been arrested on suspicion of manslaughter. Hopefully he goes to prison.

Last time I was at a dog friendly pub/restaurant the dogs were mainly fighting with each other and those with 'thorough bred' dogs were complaining.

I only stopped in with a friend for a drink and a chat.

I agree with others we should have a proper licensing system. And part of that should be demonstrating that you live in appropriate accommodation, and have the knowledge and ability to properly care for the dog.

Dogs who are so strong they could not be restrained by an average adult woman should be either banned or have much stricter conditions attached to their ownership.

Properly enforced it would mean far fewer but happier dogs in our society, and a safer environment for everyone.

Yes, there are some responsible owners of XL bullies, just as there are some responsible owners of guns.

In the UK responsible owners of guns need licences, as do responsible owners of cars. We probably don't need the same level of licensing as guns (approval from a doctor, regular renewal, random checks by police), but it should be in line with licenses. An outright ban on specific breeds is like banning specific types of gun. Daft because unscrupulous people will just switch to a slightly-different-but-technically-legal breed of dog.

You’ve got a really good point.

If we need licenses to drive a car (after proving we’re safe enough to drive and passing a test) why can’t the same be done with dogs.

I would have absolutely no issue with getting a license for my dog.

I agree with the suggestion of manslaughter charges.

The government would probably act quickly if it was a Tory donor or one of their family affected, not confident they will act otherwise.

Yes I completely agree.

The rescue centres are all at breaking point too and judging by some of these responses many people feel that there are too many dogs around anyway, so having fewer dogs born will benefit everyone.

Saw a video of a kid being mauled by a dog.

All he was doing was playing football in the street.

How would reins help when dogs are running up to people to attack them?

I think banning certain breeds would be a step forward, given how small a percentage of dogs there are, easy to enforce. You just need a very regular review of which breeds to ban so that if another bully breed is introduced, it is added to the list very quickly.

genetically they are bull hunters now companion dogs if bred correctly

it’s the arseholes that unethically breed them for status that are the problem NOT THE DOGS but the whole of MN wants them destroyed

I’d cull the arseholes personally myself.

Just watched the video of the 10 year old boy being attacked by one of these dogs. The adults were hitting it with various household implements, trying to stop it.

On LBC the other day, someone phoned in to say that the way to stop a dog attack is to get on top of the dog and shove a stick or something up its bum hole. Apparently these dogs have been bred not to notice the pain of being kicked or head butted by a bull so hitting them does nothing.

Easy to enforce the police and councils are on their knees so who is going to enforce it cos there is no money

I don't think muzzling/leashing all dogs in public would work (although at first glance it seems sensible) for the following reasons:

Of course the problematic dogs won't be muzzled and yes there is a chance in a million that they will be caught and fined, but in all likelihood, they won't.

This means that when my small, muzzled, spaniel is attacked, she cannot defend herself.

If you confront the kind of person who chooses an aggressive dog and trains it to be aggressive, for NOT having a muzzle, you will be in for abuse (at best).

Some dogs NEED to run off lead. I am lucky that we have loads of green space but not everyone is lucky enough.

But mostly...

So MANY of these attacks happen in the home/front garden. A neighbour's kid/a friend/a baby. Or dogs get out of the house and go on the rampage. I would say more than half of major dog attacks reported are not happening whilst out walking but in a domestic setting.

I don't know what the answer is - although licensing and maybe muzzling on a public street IS a start.

Hysteria at its best ffs