Dartford Crossing protester, possible deportation

[WildAlphabet]

Essex radio did an interview with the partner of a protester who climbed the dartford bridge as part of Just Stop Oil.

The gist of it is he was surprised to get three years in prison, they expected a few months. The length of his sentence means he’s facing deportation, as a German national.

They did a phone in, and I was quite surprised that even the angry radio essex listeners they put on, who were massively against his actions, disagreed with deportation as additional punishment. Some wanted community service to make up for the loss they suffered, others name called, but they thought splitting a family was too much.

I was kind of intrigued how the mumsnet demographic would view it, often being quite rule-bound or conservative. Personally I disagree with the one year rule for deportation, particularly for non violent crimes. It’s out of sync with most of the world. I guess also as a second generation immigrant who could also potentially lose the right to stay here if wrongly convicted, it’s scary on a personal level. It’s played on my mind the last few days

Here’s an article https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-66756841.amp

And as an aside. He wasn't sentenced to 3 years in prison but 2 years and 7 months. Prison sentences are served half in custody and half in the community on probation (unless a minimum tariff is imposed) so if he was a UK citizen he'd be out in the community in less than 18months or possibly earlier and his lack of work and housing would likely be funded by the taxpayer.

Except he isn't a UK citizen and has a safe country he can return to who are responsible to house and fund him.

Which is why he's being deported.

We usually don’t foot the whole bill with foreign convicts. Within the first year, they are usually deported from a UK prison to a prison in their home country to serve out their sentence unless that country has serious human rights violations in their prison system or the convict is part of international organised crime and might be jail breaked out or released via corruption.

The German prisons are actually much much nicer than U.K. prisons.

It’s why if you look up the prison population by nationality the number of foreign nationals is under-represented- it’s because they don’t serve the whole sentence here and because deportation as a consequence of crime is a pretty good deterrent from committing crime in the first place.

Throw the book at him. Entitled brat.

Why would people like him who do absolutely nothing about climate change be supported?

Given how many of them turn out to be massive hypocrites who holiday in Thailand and given that they are doing nothing to help us reduce our carbon output and just turn people away from the cause they will continue to be vilified.

He wasn't wrongly convicted though was he? Peaceful protest that cause disruption is one thing, what he did was downright dangerous- he endangered not only himself but also others. If he'd have fallen he could have really hurt someone and if they'd got into trouble guess who'd have to risk their lives to try and save him? The emergency services. Honestly not bothered by this, the fact rapists should have longer sentences isn't really relevant, it was widely communicated a harder line was being taken with protestors and I don't believe he wouldn't have had the chance to willingly get down. Interesting he's registered as no fixed abode and she had no idea what he was doing yet is no campaigning for him to stay here.

Same old sanctimonious platitudes about people who actually, when it comes down to it have stood up against environmental catastrophe, highlighting untold suffering for humans and animals, what have you done? Put a plastic bottle in the recycling bin! What would you prefer public floggings if caught. "You bastard Green Hippies, thinking about the planet!"

Let's be honest, the OP had an agenda they wanted to raise which really had nothing to do with this case.

No-one was wrongfully convicted. No family was split up. No second-generation migrant was involved. No racism was involved. No civil rights injustice has occurred.

No-one is being abused or oppressed by 'the system'.

OP claiming that they were disturbed by it as a 2nd generation immigrant is just BS in my opinion since this case has nothing at all to do anything of the points they've been raising.

I'm unsure why he is getting a custodial sentence at all. I was responding to the hyperbolic posts that have the sentiment of, 'throw away the key' and the calls for years in prison. I was highlighting how ridiculous that poster sounds, I don't really care how good the German prisons are as it is not relevant to my point.

I’m sorry but I agree with @FirstYouGetTheMoney . Protesters don’t actually do anything to fight climate change. I have buckets more respect for all the apprentices signing up to man each wind turbine on our offshore wind farms. That is a very dangerous job with little to no recognition but it is doing far more to fight climate change than a protester sitting on a bridge causing excess CO2 to be emitted and diversions of people killing NO2 and particulate emitting diesel lorries into central London.

I don’t do more than live a very low carbon footprint lifestyle, which I do, but on the other hand I’m not claiming that I’m saving the planet by highlighting untold suffering and shouting about catastrophes which, let’s face it, everyone already knows everything the protesters are saying. It’s pointless virtue signalling that actually ends up harming the environment and causing more human suffering.

I have no sympathy for him at all , loads of people were inconvenienced including myself . I think they should be made to cover the cost of all the emergency services that had to be sat there .

Totally evading the wider point there. The wider issue, since you raised it @Superfood
Ive cleared stated I disagree with the law in general, because it disadvantages people already disadvantaged and notably young Caribbean men.
You’ve tried to evade that one.
To be clear, if you support this law and ignore institutional racism you are no champion of non-white people so wind down on that one preaching. It’s a racist law in the wider sense, he’s one man but good if it shines a spotlight, or any reason, on an unjust law. I don’t want him as a special case. I want to see people question the law

But what have you done? Or the protesters you support?

Caused disruption to many and embarrassed themselves.

I'd see the point if it galvanised support but it doesn't.

IT. IS. NOT. WORKING.

The whole point of protest is that it raises awareness and gets people on board to support the cause.

All the stop-oil protestors are doing is committing crimes for which they are rightfully convicted and disrupting life for so many people that it's just pissing people off.

And the more it happens the more people are pissed off.

You're not getting supporters, just more people who think you're twats who don't have to work for a living and have time to dedicate to causing the public to lose out on time and earnings while some twat glues their arse to a road and causes huge amounts of public money to be spent unglueing them, or using cherry pickers to get them off bridges or take them through the courts

And the abject narcissisism or sociopathy of the people involved who don't give a single shit about the people that suffer is just beyond the pale.

You're not doing a thing other than feeding your own narcissisism or sociopathy where people's real, happening today suffering because of your actions means nothing to you in your entitled self-absorbed campaign

It only “disadvantages them” when they commit crimes, and I don’t care if people who aren’t citizens are getting deported after committing serious crimes.

Maybe if their community had as low a level of criminality as the rest of us they’d not suffer so much disadvantage.

I understand that many posters don't see any value in street protest or direct action, even when billions of lives are at stake, but nevertheless you'll be in the minority in a few years time.

The law isn’t racist. Foreign nationals on visas in this country are of all races and all are subject to the same law.

The institutional racism in regards to “Caribbean young men” and so on was about wrongful and illegal deportation. As in the U.K. Government broke the law and deported people who had every right to be here and this happened in a way that was absolutely racist.

I don’t think it’s right for you to compare the two cases. Whether or not this German man gets deported has no impact on how the Home Office is institutionally racist and will continue to illegally and wrongfully deport non-white people who have every right to be here. You should not pretend it does.

I think the simplest solution is to not commit crimes? Wild I know. Unless you have some statistics on how many people have been deported following a wrongful conviction? Looking at stats from the first half of this year the vast majority deported seem to be Albanians- that's not in the Carribean is it, and it doesn't look like any have been overturned.

It’s not the UK/courts/laws splitting his family - it’s that numpty putting his politics and activism ahead of his family.

I for one welcome the opportunity to see a zealot demonstrate his burning convictions through self-sacrifice of this magnitude. 🤭

Precisely so. While these idiots have been enjoying causing mayhem the UK has quietly halved our carbon output per capita, and is currently commissioning the world’s largest offshore wind farm in the North Sea, something that the protestors likely don’t know or care about.

It’s the same hippies who riot in the square mile on May Day, just spoiled kids who enjoy upsetting people.

I think emotive use of splitting families was probably swaying phone in people - no-one likes idea of that.

I do think there are issues around immigration and deportation that do need to change but this example I'm fine with - if your status depends on certain condition like work or not being in prison longer than 12 months I think most people can and do take care not to breach them.

The partner who he doesn't live with does have option of trying to move to Germany a safe and democratic country with it's own immigration rules - not ideal but better than some cases I do worry about.

Having sympathy for why he broke the law or not ( where I am ) is kind of irrelevant - he deliberately broke the law took a risk the prison term would be under 12 months and lost.

It is direct action that is a reaction to people's apathy and disinterest. Given that is the case I suspect they don't really care about your respect they want to draw attention to the situation and the seriousness of it. You say people know about it but many people don't have a clue as they don't read a newspaper, they don't watch the news, they don't read full stop. To take that action whether you agree with it or not takes an element of bravery knowing the backlash and consequences. I could not do it and I definitely don't do enough to reduce my carbon footprint but it has made me think about what I should be doing and even who I work for in my job as I have DC and I have a moral obligation to them and their friends, peers, generation to not be a fatalist and just think, "fuck it".

The police can be blamed for a lot things but not this! The only one responsible is him and his equally stupid mate. I have no sympathy for him at all.

If it took any bravery they’d not be shining like stuck pigs when incarcerated and / or deported, they’d be proud of their sacrifice.

No, they are a bunch of thick, unpleasant trouble makers who care less about the environment than about just causing trouble, just like when they smash up the city each May Day.

The protesters are all about getting into the news- their actions are purely attention seeking. How are they going to reach this illiterate population you speak of that do not read or watch the news and are also apathetic and don’t know anything about the climate or the environment? I don’t think this segment of the population exists. Where did you get the idea they do?

I think the fact that there is such massive opposition to the protests at the moment suggest that will not change in any way in a few years.

Societies don't change that much so quickly.

That's just fact. And I know your leaders or TikTok accounts or whatever tell you otherwise but sorry, the overwhelming public and governmental opinion is you are time-wasting narcissisitic twats causing damage.

That's not going to change in the next few years as society isn't going to change that much in the next few years.

That's not how it works.

But carry on listening to them and believing you'll be on the 'right side of history' very soon. You won't but enjoy 😉

I’m not referring to Windrush non-law breakers.
People like this https://amp.theguardian.com/global-development/2023/mar/07/jamaica-hostel-vulnerable-us-uk-mental-health-deportees-acc
and many others.
Not ‘good’ immigrants. I’m making the point I still support the humane treatment and equality for those petty law breaker’s deported caught up in untreated mental health needs, poverty or desperation in their young lives