To be confused about my partner's nationality

[ForestryForever]

Good evening,
My partner's parents were both born in Wales. They both lived and grew up in Wales. As adults they both left Wales and lived in England, where they remained.
Whilst married and living in England, they had a baby - my partner. My partner was born, raised in and grew up in England, and still lives in England.
What nationality is my partner?

This.

It still isn't an ethnicity to me. You aren't really any different to most Northern Europeans.

In 2023, I'm not sure if Welsh people can claim that they are/have been colonised, and make a big deal about it. How about we live in the present??

Culturally you are Welsh but ethnicity you are white and no real difference to the Scots or Welsh or Irish.

Do Welsh people today really still cling to the historical fact of having been colonialised by the English?

How does it actually help you in your daily life and happiness to continue to identify as victims, having once been subdued by a colonial enemy?

And people wonder why there is antipathy towards the English amongst Welsh people.

The denial of the existence of an ethnic group and the minimising of colonialism by those from the colonial power is quite a big deal to those on the other end of it.

The UK is not a nation, it's a State made up of more than one nation. When you say everyone is British by nationality you mean by citizenship. Nationality and citizenship are not actually the same thing although they are used interchangeably in a lot of contexts. That doesn't work in the case of Wales because it is a nation but not a State. Welsh nationality therefore exists entirely separately from citizenship, or any legal definition.

Um, no. You're really confusing yourself now. British is absolutely and definitively a nationality. Check with the United Nations if you're unsure!

I have three as well, I don’t define myself as belonging only to one. I’d say they have three, as they are nationals of three countries.

This is very true. I have seen on FB groups albeit slightly extreme ones that they the Welsh are true Celts and English are German. I was a bit like WTF.

I had an Ancestry DNA test done and it came back as 100% Welsh. I’ve also had a mitrochondrial DNA test and came back as Haplogroup V which is most common in the Saami people of Lapland. Mitochondrial DNA is inherited solely from your mother.

When you say nationality you mean citizenship. They have three passports therefore they have 3 nationalities. So they are of mixed nationality, by your definition of the word.

Yup. It's a bit ridiculous how every seems to be afraid to say it. England is not a "new" country like the US, and ethnically you have to be white to be English.

It doesn't take away the shared culture, citizenship, Non-whites rights to call themselves English.

White South Africans, are not ethnically African. Dutch, or somewhere around there I guess.

The questions usually relate to if you are white or black or mixed race. My issue is that being Welsh is no different or special to being English.

Could be because not many people go around claiming that Greeks don't exist as an ethnic group. Also England never colonized Greece. So lots of reasons really.

He's English, with Welsh parents.

I have cousins born in England to Scottish parents. They say they are English. With Scottish parents.

It's interesting.

I'm pretty sure if he had one English and one Welsh parent, everyone would be ok with him saying he's half English half Welsh.

But with two Welsh parents, there's quite a few people that want to call him English.

Make this make sense 😂

Interesting. So would that Sami influence have come before the Celts settled or after? So technically are you 100% Celt?

I am tempted to take those tests.

Do you understand that if both your parents are Welsh then you belong to the ethnic group known as Welsh? And why are you putting it in scare quotes? Are you aware it's even listed as an ethnic group on the census?

Yeah he's English. As it happens my parents are both Welsh and I was born in North East England, have lived in England all my life, only been to Wales once ever. It would be very odd for me to refer to myself as Welsh. I'm definitely English, as is your husband.

@Boomchuck Your kids are not ethnically English. Why is it so hard to accept? Yes they're English, but not genetically.

And regarding the " Where are you originally from " thing, well that goes with the territory of being a minority, looking different. The world is not colour blind.

Doesn’t change the fact that ethnicity and race are separate. I am white, my ethnicity is mixed. If asked, I say exactly that - that I’m half x and half y.

Being Welsh is different to be being English, given they are separate identities. Recognising something as different isn’t making a value judgment on it being better or worse.

You are not everyone. Your personal family history is different to other people's.

It's not about Welsh people wanting to feel superior, generally. Although I can understand how one would want to feel superior to people who'd like to deny your ethnic group exists and accuse you of supremacism for insisting that it does.

Google will tell you what you want to hear.

The nature of ethnicity is complicated and controversial - there are dangerous and incendiary views that you will find if you start Googling the subject, especially when you start talking of biology and genetics, as you have. And when you talk about ethnicity as being distinct from citizenship and culture, which you have.

If you are not prepared to clarify what you mean when you refer to Welsh ethnicity in a biological and genetic sense, it will not be surprising that people find your position potentially disturbing. "Google it" is a dreadful reponse.

Nationality is your legal relationship of belonging with a particular country.
Citizenship marks the country where you have rights and responsibilities.
Race is based on natural physical traits.
Ethnicity is your ethnic origins/roots.

My parents are Welsh, I'm English. Does that mean I should hold some sort of grudge against my own nation because I'm ethnically Welsh?

@KimberleyClark How much did you pay for the tests?

I would love to see a few Welsh and English take these tests. I bet they aren't that different.

He is whatever he says he is. Both his parents are welsh so he is too. totally get his Joanna lumley comment and can understand him feeling upset. Us welsh are very patriotic and proud of our nation.

I was born in Wales, to parents born in Wales, went to school in Wales until age 13, so learned Welsh in school, but don't speak it fluently. I have lived and worked as an adult in both England and Wales, raised my first child in Wales, and currently live in England with my English partner, and my son who was born in England.

My nationality is British as per my passport, and I mostly think of myself as British, and I honestly don't think there are significant cultural differences between Wales and England. (I think there is just as much difference within England and within Wales is there is between the two countries. )

I know many Welsh people who fervently think there are though, including my father, who still lives in Wales and strongly identifies as Welsh, as do most of the people in his community. Almost none of these people speak Welsh (the majority of Welsh people don't speak the language). And many of them, like my father, are descendants the huge number of immigrants to the South East Wales coalfield in the late 19th/early 20th centuries, so have no Brythonic celts or welsh speakers in their ancestry. They can't possibly share an 'ethnicity' with welsh speakers in rural North Wales who may have had ancestors living in that area for thousands of years. What they do share is a strong identification with a place and a community.

If OP's husband's welsh ancestry is important to him, and an important part of his identity, its not up to her to tell him he's wrong.

Don't worry, I shall have my smelling salts handy if I come across any dangerous or incendiary views while googling. I may even need a lie down and a cup of tea. I recommend you do the same, you seem to need it. I don't provide 'clarifications' to people as easily disturbed as you. Life's far too short.