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Original poster

To ask what your opinion is on the Luis Rubiales and Jenna Hermoso kiss is?

102 replies

Username1221 · 11/09/2023 21:49

Do you think he should have resigned? Do you think the legal complaint being brought against him is justified?

Im still forming my opinion on the whole incident so I’m interested to hear what others think.

Primarily I don’t think he should have kissed her, certainly not in the way he did. And I don’t for a second believe his claims that he asked for consent by saying a little peck. And I believe he should have just publicly apologised for acting inappropriately and ruining a proud moment for women’s football in Spain.

However, I personally don’t think what happened merits a legal complaint being filed, nor the possibility of criminal charges. (Albeit I recognise his behaviour could technically fit the legal definition of an assault). I also think that if he’d just apologised that would have been sufficient without the need to resign or be suspended. But there may be facts or angles I haven’t considered so interested to hear more…

OP posts:
PerfectMatch · 11/09/2023 21:50

I pretty much agree with everything you've said. It was very inappropriate and he should have apologised immediately. I think he had to resign but IMO a court case is a step too far.

rubyslippers · 11/09/2023 21:52

She was doing her job - what he did in the workplace was utterly inappropriate

Rounee · 11/09/2023 21:54

She didn't want him to kiss her,but due to lifelong conditioning didn't feel able to react at the time.

It didn't traumatise her because women are used to being manhandled regularly and it was the physical contact was for a limited time.

She didn't feel able to say anything afterwards because the physical act occurred in front of a huge TV audience.

It was only when there was public outcry that she felt as though she was able to state she wasn't happy with what had happened and maybe thought about it more deeply.

UndercoverCop · 11/09/2023 21:56

So you think he kissed her without her consent, in her place of work, whilst in a position of seniority, then lied to imply she had consented and to discredit her publicly.
In what context is this not court case?

Freepo · 11/09/2023 21:57

Someone once kissed me when I wasn’t expecting it in a professional setting and I was really upset by it. I really don’t think what he did was ok.

for me part, had he immediately apologised, recognised he had work to do and indicated he wanted to educate himself on why he should not behave that way, I would say maybe stay in the job. Society will only
improve if we can get everyone to try to do better. But his reaction was ignorant and vile. I’m glad he has gone.

Soontobe60 · 11/09/2023 21:57

If my boss kissed me on the lips like he did I’d want him to lose his job!

CurlewKate · 11/09/2023 21:59

@User41 "However, I personally don’t think what happened merits a legal complaint being filed, nor the possibility of criminal charges."

Why not?

KateyCuckoo · 11/09/2023 22:00

The only thing I'm confused about is how the Spanish authorities are prosecuting when the crime happened in Australia? Does anyone know?

Original poster
Username1221 · 11/09/2023 22:01

@Freepo thanks, reading your response has made me pause and think about what it must have felt like in her shoes and I think I would have found to really upsetting.

I should add I am also glad he has resigned but (I think like you) primarily because of the way he reacted to it by failing to apologising and imo blatantly lying about seeking consent

OP posts:
Gilmorehill · 11/09/2023 22:04

You clearly have never been the recipient of unwanted sexual attention at work. It happened to me over 30 years ago and I still feel sad and angry about it. I really hope women today feel able to take grievances to management and feel listened to;

Original poster
Username1221 · 11/09/2023 22:07

@CurlewKate I think because I don’t believe the act was sexually motivated and I don’t think it was violent in nature. Instead I think it was a highly inappropriate, misjudged act which is probably rooted to some degree in sexism.

Legally I do believe it would meet the definition of an assault (and so she has every right to bring such a complaint). However ethically I am not sure that a (very) inappropriate act of this kind meets the threshold for criminality. Have to admit I’m struggling to articulate exactly why though and I’m hoping this thread will help clarify my thoughts…

OP posts:
fandjango · 11/09/2023 22:11

Gilmorehill · 11/09/2023 22:04

You clearly have never been the recipient of unwanted sexual attention at work. It happened to me over 30 years ago and I still feel sad and angry about it. I really hope women today feel able to take grievances to management and feel listened to;

Same here. 20 years ago for me and it was brushed under the carpet. A lame apology attributed to him being drunk. This was a works Christmas party and he grabbed my breasts in full view of everyone there. the problem was he was the top man (the boss!) so nothing was done. I remember going to work the next day feeling absolutely horrified that everyone had saw it happen. I didn't encourage it, I didn't condone it and I didn't accept it..

Farmageddon · 11/09/2023 22:11

I agree OP I'm sort of conflicted about it.

I think he's a pompous ass and should have unreservedly apologised and agreed that it was unprofessional, however I do think in a celebratory moments people can be over friendly and it doesn't necessarily mean they are predators.
In my past I have drunkenly hugged and kissed people in happy moments, I sort of took it a bit like that - they were all delightedly celebrating and he crossed a line.

He shouldn't have done what he did, but I don't think a legal case is really warranted. I think the fact that he dug his heels in and acted like a prick about it afterwards was shitty and shows what his character is.

UsingChangeofName · 11/09/2023 22:12

In a weird way, I think it is a good thing that he did such a stupid thing so publicly and then tried to play innocent, because it has brought into the World's view the awful way the players have been treated for a long time.

This has to be understood in the context of the recent history of Spanish Women's Football, and including all the top players who refused to play for the National Team because of how they were treated. Many top players missed the World Cup because of their protest, and yet the Spanish FA did nothing.

No investigation.
No changes.

This isn't about one kiss. This is about ingrained misogyny and sexism and power playing.

81 players have refused to play for the National Team while he is in place. It really, really, really isn't about one kiss. That is just what has started the World taking notice.

What I hope is that they don't just accept his resignation, but that they do a thorough investigation of everything that has gone on over the last 7 - 10 years and put systems in place to make sure there is a complete overhaul.

fairyfluf · 11/09/2023 22:13

If a colleague or superior did that to me at work they'd be escorted off the premises and then fired

megletthesecond · 11/09/2023 22:14

He's a sleazy pig and the kiss way overstepped boundaries. The way he grabbed her head was creepy.
Pity he didn't go four weeks ago.

crumpet · 11/09/2023 22:15

I think it is the tip of the iceberg - the way the squad has been treated over a long period. No way would 81 players go on strike for a single one off error of judgment. The management of the team have a lot to answer for, and he deserves to have lost his job. More should go as well.

Fourecks · 11/09/2023 22:16

Why do you think this act was only partly rooted in sexism? Would he have kissed a man like this?

Zampa · 11/09/2023 22:16

Farmageddon · 11/09/2023 22:11

I agree OP I'm sort of conflicted about it.

I think he's a pompous ass and should have unreservedly apologised and agreed that it was unprofessional, however I do think in a celebratory moments people can be over friendly and it doesn't necessarily mean they are predators.
In my past I have drunkenly hugged and kissed people in happy moments, I sort of took it a bit like that - they were all delightedly celebrating and he crossed a line.

He shouldn't have done what he did, but I don't think a legal case is really warranted. I think the fact that he dug his heels in and acted like a prick about it afterwards was shitty and shows what his character is.

Pretty much this.

But the Spanish FA are culpable here too. Have you seen how the women's team's manager behaves towards his players? The misogyny is institutional.

Donotshushme · 11/09/2023 22:18

Sexual assault isn't always violent.

He kissed her without her consent. Of course that's a criminal act.

Lizzyinatizzy · 11/09/2023 22:18

For me it’s more his lack of apology, his refusal to accept that what he did was wrong and the whole ‘she consented’/blame shift that I find grim.
i don’t think he meant to cause offence or for it to be construed as sexually inappropriate but that is the crux of the problem. I don’t think many women would kiss a man like that (although to fair I’ve witnessed some pretty poor behaviour by alcohol fuelled women on a night out).
Once he knew he had totally misread it he should have apologised, loudly and clearly, and committed to learn from it.
i don’t think even now he really sees that it was wildly inappropriate.

AutumnCrow · 11/09/2023 22:18

I personally don’t think what happened merits a legal complaint

Well it is the subject of a legal complaint. <shrug> What you gonna do about it?

GrumpyPanda · 11/09/2023 22:21

It was a clear assault and I'm troubled by your headline tbh. Linking victim and perpetrator with an "and" sounds rather like "the war between Russia and Ukraine."

HadrianRich · 11/09/2023 22:21

So would you prefer that laws around sexual assault were relaxed?

It will have been a horrible experience for Hermoso to have to file a compliant and be subject to the scrutiny of the world's media; especially when she should have been celebrating.

'Rooted in some sexism': understatement of the year.

Catusrusty · 11/09/2023 22:22

Username1221 · 11/09/2023 22:07

@CurlewKate I think because I don’t believe the act was sexually motivated and I don’t think it was violent in nature. Instead I think it was a highly inappropriate, misjudged act which is probably rooted to some degree in sexism.

Legally I do believe it would meet the definition of an assault (and so she has every right to bring such a complaint). However ethically I am not sure that a (very) inappropriate act of this kind meets the threshold for criminality. Have to admit I’m struggling to articulate exactly why though and I’m hoping this thread will help clarify my thoughts…

Edited

Sexual assault is motivated by power and control.

It appears you think that despite the fact he very firmly held her head that because there wasn't quite enough gratuitous violence on show for your viewing pleasure, that it isn't criminal?

Maybe women who have their bums grabbed should only be allowed to complain if they're also given a split lip? Or do rape victims need to show they've been punched in the face before it's good enough for your threshold!?

How much punishment do you think women and our bodies should be obliged to take, because clearly a sexual assault doesn't meet your demanding criteria.

Of course forcing yourself on a woman is criminal.