To ask what your opinion is on the Luis Rubiales and Jenna Hermoso kiss is?

[Username1221]

Do you think he should have resigned? Do you think the legal complaint being brought against him is justified?

Im still forming my opinion on the whole incident so I’m interested to hear what others think.

Primarily I don’t think he should have kissed her, certainly not in the way he did. And I don’t for a second believe his claims that he asked for consent by saying a little peck. And I believe he should have just publicly apologised for acting inappropriately and ruining a proud moment for women’s football in Spain.

However, I personally don’t think what happened merits a legal complaint being filed, nor the possibility of criminal charges. (Albeit I recognise his behaviour could technically fit the legal definition of an assault). I also think that if he’d just apologised that would have been sufficient without the need to resign or be suspended. But there may be facts or angles I haven’t considered so interested to hear more…

Stay classy Spain. You knew he was a shit and you still employed him.

The kiss was symptomatic of the misogynistic, bullying culture fostered by the team management. The 81 players that went out on strike would not have done so for a single act of delighted congratulations.

THERE WERE MEN IN THE GREETING LINE. HE SHOOK THEIR HANDS. idiot.

If England had won the World Cup and the head of the FA had given Harry Kane a smacker on the lips or something, you'd hear absolutely nothing about it. What this really means is that when it comes to women's football, it should be all women and not men trying to encroach. If a female head of the Spanish FA had done it, it would be seen as supportive and not pervy like with this guy.

Is it shame or internalised misogyny?

The same type of thinking as the father of Brock Allen Turner, the American rapist who said his son's life 'shouldn't be ruined for a few minutes of fun' after he was caught raping an unconscious woman.

@FabFitFifties

Going against the grain, but I didn't think it looked sexually motivated at all - it seemed like a delighted, congratulatory, kiss, that he would of given to either sex.

But he didn't though, did he?

Who? 🤷‍♀️

Why not just google?

Not the way he kissed. Anyone who grabbed someone's head and forced that kind of kiss on them would be see as out of order and pervy.

He kissed several of the other players on the cheek and that's not causing a problem because they did the same. The problem is when he held Jenna Hermosa's face and forced a kiss on her lips.

It was unacceptable conduct. End of.

Whether it was actually overtly sexual, whether she's gay and Lord knows what else is neither here nor there; roads we don't need to go down.

Thinking a bit further...

Vaguely recollect there being a bit of a WTF moment c1980 when the wife of a couple my parents had known for years gave my Dad a peck on the cheek either entering or leaving our home on New Year's Eve.

In my own social/professional circles there are a handful of women I know well enough that we might socially greet with a peck on the cheek. That, and hugs, have, see above, become acceptable in the UK in my lifetime.

This.

Excellent post @Northby

Your title is wrong, there is no and. No consent. Would you like someone to grab your head in both their hands? Clearly assault even if you take the kiss out.

When I was young I went for an interview at a fast food chicken chain. The guy who interviewed me was asking very inappropriate questions but I was young and shy and I didn't know what to do. When the interview had finished I stood up to shake his hand and he pulled me in and kissed me on the cheek. I felt so uncomfortable and dirty. I walked and cried all the way home. I plucked up the courage to complain higher up and after a bit of back and forth with me insisting they look at the CCTV they wrote to me saying they consider the matter closed. Those words still make me feel sick I felt so helpless and it all felt so unjust.
Men in a position of power kissing someone without consent is not ok, then lying about the situation is not ok, then the wider corporation covering him is not ok. I hope she files and it sends a shiver up the spine of all men who think his actions and subsequent behaviour was ok.

The worst part was the head clamp, so that to get away she would have had to knee him in the groin on live TV. He knew that.

I've never kissed a colleague on the mouth. Most people haven't.

If it had been something like an unwelcome hug, it would be more debatable, but there's nothing ambiguous about this assault.

It's pretty simple imo.

In the video, they hugged, they said a couple words, he grabbed her face and kissed her on the lips.

If the couple words were him asking if he could kiss her and she said yes, that's consent.

If the words were anything other than that, he didn't have consent and she had no chance to pull away or turn her face.

The only consent is enthusiastic consent, everything else is no consent and no consent is abuse.

All having read through these replies I do feel regretful about my initial posts and stupid to be honest.

I suppose with football you are used to seeing heightened emotions in terms of people crying, hugging and fighting.

And I think that made me lose sight of the fact that this is a professional woman in her workplace. And previous posters are completely right I would be horrified if a male colleague, no less my boss, kissed me on the lips without consent no matter the context.

It was definitely assault. The fact that Rubiales behaved like this on live TV at a World Cup final while standing with the Queen of Spain…. god only knows how he must have behaved behind closed doors for all those years.

Brock Allen Turner's father doesn't think his son is a rapist. He thinks his son has been punished for having a quick fun fuck with an unimportant woman and why should his future be harmed for that.

Massive misogyny. He's not shamed - he doesn't think his son has done anything wrong so why would he feel shame?

And fwiw. I couldn't give a flying fuck why he kissed her. Congratulatory, commiseratory, her graduation, she won a microwave on bullseye, her birthday or passing her driving test...

he grabbed her face, giving her no chance to avoid it and kissed her on the lips. If he'd done it to me, at my age now, I'd have booted the prick square in the bollocks hard enough to change his pronouns... no ONE touches me in anyway without my enthusiastic consent.. no one, I react... badly...

Spot on! It's ingrained misogyny and they act like pimps to professional athletes in a closed world of sycophants. The world has moved on and so should they!! 🤔

It's refreshing for an OP to reflect on posters challenging their reaction and understand a different POV so I commend you for that.

And I think that made me lose sight of the fact that this is a professional woman in her workplace.

But just something to think about - the fact this was in her workplace isn't the reason this was assault.

What he did (forcibly holding her head so she couldn't get away and kissing her on the lips) would have been assault whether it was done in public, private, workplace or anywhere else.

OP, I think it's great that you're thinking deeply about this.

There is no question to me that the act was sexual assault.

I wonder what you mean by 'not sexually motivated'? Sexual assault and rape are often not motivated by sexual desire - it's about power, intimidation, the rush of forcing one's will onto an unwilling person, humiliation - lots of motivations, really. The act is still sexual assault.

Jenni Hermoso was at her workplace. She was not asked and did not consent. Kissing an employee on the mouth in full view of all her colleagues and in this case millions of fans - it's shocking and it's criminal.

Even if he had immediately apologised, he should be prosecuted.

meets the threshold for criminality.

While my first reaction, too, is to wonder whether it's bad enough I am soo glad that the world is slowly changing to one in which women do not have to keep quite in the face of this nonsense.

If he had taken responsibility for himself and apologies up front, it might not have come to this yet here we are.

I'm a Spaniard who has been following this case very close, with hope in my heart that attitudes like Rubiales', so deeply ingrained in too much of Spanish society still, are now finally being outed and challenged.

I thank you all for this discussion, and especially the OP for listening and reflecting.

Thank you, from the bottom of my heart.

I strongly suspect that kiss was just the tip of the iceberg ( there is a photo of him carrying a female player over his shoulder). Behind closed doors I suspect he crosses the line constantly but this time he got caught publicly & they rightly seized the opportunity.