To ask what your opinion is on the Luis Rubiales and Jenna Hermoso kiss is?

[Username1221]

Do you think he should have resigned? Do you think the legal complaint being brought against him is justified?

Im still forming my opinion on the whole incident so I’m interested to hear what others think.

Primarily I don’t think he should have kissed her, certainly not in the way he did. And I don’t for a second believe his claims that he asked for consent by saying a little peck. And I believe he should have just publicly apologised for acting inappropriately and ruining a proud moment for women’s football in Spain.

However, I personally don’t think what happened merits a legal complaint being filed, nor the possibility of criminal charges. (Albeit I recognise his behaviour could technically fit the legal definition of an assault). I also think that if he’d just apologised that would have been sufficient without the need to resign or be suspended. But there may be facts or angles I haven’t considered so interested to hear more…

@monsteramunch @Fizzology I’m ashamed to say its really made me realise I could definitely do with reflecting on my understanding and perception of assault. This will probably sound ridiculous now to some posters but I would consider myself a feminist and to date have also just assumed I had a pretty good grasp on the issue of assault and sexism. But I’d say this thread has really given me reason to stop in my tracks and think more carefully about the issue as a whole.

Really good to see a poster reflect upon the replies and discussion and change their thinking.

What I hope all this publicity has done is persuade more and more people worldwide to do so too.

As so many posters have testified on this thread alone, far too often assaults like this have been swept under the carpet as "not being that bad".

One of the reasons why a thorough and open investigation into the Spanish FA would be so helpful, in highlighting that it isn't purely about one incident, it is about the continual treatment of the women within the organisation.

I'm in quite a few different football fan groups, and, whilst there are plenty of men trying to explain all of this to others, there are still FAR too many men who just don't understand it at all. From this thread, it seems there are women too.

I suspect he’s been even worse where there hasn’t been any onlookers, and this time he was caught in the act in front of millions. They were never going to let it go

I agree(hold up shield against all the rage in reply to this). I think that he was caught up in the excitement of the moment. Male footballers hug and kiss eachotger all the time and no one bats an eyelid. If he had kissed her forehead then maybe this wouldn't have been talked about.

I've never once seen a male footballer forcibly hold another player's face and kiss them.

No-one is complaining about hugging and consensual kisses - Queen Letizia hugged them all. Lots of them hugged each other. Lots of them kissed each other on the cheek. Several of them kissed Luis rubiales on the cheek and he them.

Consensual celebration isn't the issue. The aggressive grabbing of her face and forcibly kissing her on the lips is the issue.

Why cares what you think mate?

During the celebrations, he is photographed holding her face and kissing her. I don’t see how it is possible that he can have her consent to do that in that moment. That makes the action unacceptable

During the celebrations, she is photographed picked him up off his feet of the floor in a full body hug. I don’t see how it is possible she can have had his consent to do that in that moment. That makes the action unacceptable

I don’t understand why one is universally condemned and now changed as a criminal act and the other is not even mentioned

THIS!

‘Luis Rubiales and Jenna Hermoso kiss’ - this doesn’t exist. All him. This wasn’t a mutual act. He did it to her, without consent, in her place of work, and he had the arrogance to do it in front of a global audience.

Having lived in Latin America and met Spanish people I know that greeting with a kiss on the cheek is normal. He greeted all the locals Spanish players that way, as did the Spanish Queen. He went completely overboard by kissing one player the way he did. He should have apologised.

Do you really think a hug is the same as a tongue in your mouth?

I just read on Twitter that Jenna Hormosa is a lesbian.
Now for some reason that I don't quite understand, to me, that makes what he did to her even worse.

Now I'm thinking if she is a lesbian would she ever consent to kiss a man she's not related too? I can't quite put into words why I feel it's worse.

That's not what was said. It was said that because some of the England footballers are gay the poster wondered if she might be too. I find that a strange thought process. And also quite irrelevant to the assault imo.

At my Christmas works do one of the managers welcomed me with a hug and a big kiss. I was rather taken aback as we don’t usually converse much, although he’s a really nice bloke, just quiet and very chilled out in the office. I wasn’t offended as he was fairly tipsy and very excitable as england were playing France that night. I let it go quite happily. However I’m not sure just anyone could have pulled it off, perhaps the sincerity and seasonal giddiness and the fact he’s one of the most liked managers “made it ok”. I’m a tactile drunk although I rarely rarely drink. I’ve also considered that the way it makes me fussy with others might not be welcomed in this day and age. Appreciate everyone has boundaries. By tactile I mean hugs not groping!

I'm a bit troubled by a few people saying what he did was worse because of her assumed sexuality.

I am heterosexual, and was sexually harassed at work. what happened to me wasnt less serious because of my sexuality. It was still an unwanted act which caused me very serious mental harm. It's like if she was hetero, well that's ok, she is into men anyway. An act of sexual assault against a woman is not less serious because she's hetero. Don't focus on ways to determine if the act is more harmful to a certain type of woman. Focus on the act itself.

Totally agree

That. I couldn't work with him again certainly.

the quick 2 air kisses thing by the cheeks is in a lot of cultures. Kisses on lips are a completely different intrusion into personal space that only happens when you're already in an intimate relationship. And he knows all that.

I pretty much agree with you. He could have apologised and all this would have been forgotten by now. But he didn’t apologise. He insisted he had done nothing wrong, refused to see the obvious and now he is being punished for his arrogance.

He was completely in the wrong.
I also think the pressure he put on Jenna afterwards was unforgiveable. And his mum getting involved and going on hunger strike? Fucking ridiculous.
Everyone else managed their emotions, why is he an exception? Because he's a powerful man?

However, I personally don’t think what happened merits a legal complaint being filed, nor the possibility of criminal charges. (Albeit I recognise his behaviour could technically fit the legal definition of an assault).

I think if he had behaved better after the kiss, it wouldn't have got this far. Which isn't to say I disagree with what's happened, just that I don't think it would be happening if not for his subsequent behaviour.

The guy in his spare time apparently likes getting groups of young prostitutes together for his entertainment.

His mother is ridiculous as are the excuses.

I think that's a fair question!

So glad that you are starting to see it for what it is. That's important.

What's even more important now is that you act on that. If you talk about this storyline (and any other similar one) to people irl, make sure you get this point over to them. And make it clear because people need to open their eyes.

He only kissed her, no other team member, so yes it was an assault.
not that i think he should have kissed any of the others, a cheek kiss I might Ignore but a full smack on the lips and holding her head, was controlling.
Im disturbed that she patted his flanks right after but that was an involuntary response that we all do unintentionally in such situations of high emotion.
so yes the arrogant pig should go, and perhaps the message will filter down to the rest of mankind

The kiss was inappropriate and ill through out.

He should have apologised at the time instead of doubling down.

But from what I've seen and heard it seems there more to his behaviour than just this kiss which lead to the resignation - alongside his unwillingness to accept it was inappropriate.

I wouldn't have been happy with the kiss. I would have addressed it.

As a stand alone event I'd have made it clear NEVER to do it again.

I think it's hard to judge why he didn't apologise. Perhaps he was worried about accepting and admitting publicly it was wrong it would backfire. His reaction has clearly backfired anyway but I'm not sure there was anyway even a public apology would have solved this.

It's all so complex but in essence I agree with you too.

Just to clarify, for those jumping on my comment about Jenna's possible sexuality, I was not implying that if she's straight it would be less bad. Because I'm not. The man sexually assaulted her, pure and simple. I've had it happen to me several times in different workplaces and social situations, and it's horrible and inexcusable.
My point, obviously not made, was that it would give the lie to those apologists who think it was trivial or in some way consensual, or that women should just put up and shut up.