Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Surname issue

498 replies

roopertbear · 10/09/2023 21:50

More of a WWYD. Cannot agree on surname for our soon to be born child. Namechanged for this.

DP doesn't believe in marriage- fair enough. We have different surnames.

His surname- Smith- is the same as both his parents, paternal grandfather etc.).

My surname- Jones- is my ex DP's name. I changed it over a decade ago by deedpoll to match my DD. This has been my surname my whole adult life nearly. It's on all my documents and I don't go by my maiden name at all. DD has a very involved father and I can't change her surname. I also don't want to have a different surname to her.

My maiden name (Brown) is my father's name who I am no contact with. My mother has a totally different surname (Green).

I want to double-barrell Smith-Jones. DP wants just Smith. He hates double-barrell so said it can't be both names. I said fine, just Jones then. He is very much against that as it's not my 'real' name and it is essentially another man's name (though aren't they all?). He said if we don't go for Smith, we should go for Brown. But that's not my name and I've no intention to reverting to it. He said we should go for Green then, but it's the same issue. I don't want to have a surname that is not the same (or partly the same in the case of a double barrell) with either of my children, but we totally disagree.

The not getting married is not an issue, although I happily would, but I am not giving my child just DP's name if it's not also partly my surname (I'd become a Smith-Jones if we married- DC would then just be Smith). AIBU? Which name would you pick?

OP posts:
Ketzele · 10/09/2023 22:39

My SIL has three kids by three different partners and absolutely insisted - quite rightly, in my view - that they should all share a name. I have dc with different parents and one has my name only while the other is double barrelled - they both hate this and want to have the same name.

Stick to your guns!

MoxieFox · 10/09/2023 22:39

HowcanIhelp123 · 10/09/2023 22:35

But it would be exactly the same if OP had kept her maiden name and given first child her surname only.

Jones is OPs chosen name, it matches her ex but he doesn't own it. There will be a large number of other 'jones'' around the world.

If OP wanted she could approach her ex about changing her DDs name to 'Jones-Green', changing her own name to 'Green' then new baby could be 'Green' or 'Smith -Green'. But why should 2 people that are perfectly happy with their names have to change them to appease her new partner that 'doesn't agree with marriage' yet wants to insist baby has only their name lest it hurt their ego because the name would match not only his partners name but her ex's too.

Show quote history

No, it’s not exactly the same if OP had kept her birth name and given that to all her children.

Yes Jones is a common name, but it is also not the real name. It is a standin for the OP’s actual surname which could be alot less common.

It’s not to appease one person. It’s to be logical and prevent future hassles due to authorities naturally thinking two children with the same surname that is from the OP’s ex both being the biological children of that ex.

Starlightstarbright2 · 10/09/2023 22:43

I am divorced . I kept my surname as it’s my Ds’s surname …

it is my name now ..

Jossse · 10/09/2023 22:43

Why doesn't he change his to Jones? What's the big deal for him. If he wants his surname maybe he should commit to marriage!

Whataretheodds · 10/09/2023 22:46

WaltzingWaters · 10/09/2023 22:16

Seems I’m going against the grain here, but I can very much understand that he wouldn’t want your ex’s name as the name of his child. I know it’s a tough one as you want to use your name, and usually I’d agree with that. But this is very different as you have taken your ex’s name, I can see why he’d be very uncomfortable with that.

It's OP's name now and has been for most of her adult life.

Hollyppp · 10/09/2023 22:47

Jones.

if you were getting married I can see his point a little bit more

Lovingitallnow · 10/09/2023 22:50

EineReiseDurchDieZeit · 10/09/2023 22:33

Agree with @SandyY2K

I just find it odd to give a baby a name they have no biological connection to (unless they are adopted) but I accept I'm in the minority here

But the baby has a massive biological connection to Jones- half their DNA is Jones.

Bookish88 · 10/09/2023 22:52

I can see your DP's point of view.

Personally in your situation I'd change your own name to Smith-Jones and give the new baby just Smith. That way you're connected to both DC, but you don't have the slightly awkward situation of your new DC taking your ex's surname.

Tandora · 10/09/2023 22:52

UnsolicitedOpinions · 10/09/2023 22:13

I’m a bit surprised that nobody so far can see his point of view at all.

I don’t know what the solution is though.

I can see why would think it isn’t really “fair” - you were happy to change your name to your ex-partner’s name without even being married. You gave your first child your ex’s name and didn’t insist on keeping yours then.

Now you’re having his child, you won’t give it his name, because you insist on them having the same surname as you, and you won’t change it from your ex’s name as it’s your first child’s name.
So unless it’s double-barrelled, why he doesn’t like, he seems to have no choice but to have his child named after your ex partner.

I wouldn’t be thrilled about that either.

I don’t know what the answer is. The problem is that your first child’s name is a fixed thing now, and all your options revolve around that.

I can’t see what else can be done given your feelings, except double-barrelling. I don’t like double-barrelled names either, so I can understand his feelings on that too.

he seems to have no choice but to have his child named after your ex partner

um no, his child is being named after his/ her mother + sibling , it’s OP’s name. Or do you think when I gave my baby my name , she was really being named after my dad? Or maybe she was named after my grandfather , as it was his name originally? Thinking about it we will have to trace this back to the first man ever called x and declare her named after him.. and Are women all completely invisible to you?

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 10/09/2023 22:52

I agrée with most - Jones or Smith-Jones

I think the key thing is that she shares at least part of the name with your existing Dd- that will make things much easier. This is also the one name that can’t be changed, as presumably her involved dad would not agree that.

It’s not “another man’s name” - that’s a very patriarchal attitude. It’s your name because it’s the name you have. By his logic, Brown is also another man’s name.

Why doesn’t he also become Jones? Job done.

(If it wasn’t for your older Dd, you could all change to Green)

Lovingitallnow · 10/09/2023 22:53

t’s not to appease one person. It’s to be logical and prevent future hassles due to authorities naturally thinking two children with the same surname that is from the OP’s ex both being the biological children of that ex.

How would the authorities (also which ones) know who either of the children's fathers are by the surname alone? Also all it would tell them is they have the same surname as their mother. I can't imagine authorities who'd have enough of an interest to actually check who the child's father is just stop at one and make an assumption on the other. Surely the same can be argued if the cabby is smith and doesn't match their mother?

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 10/09/2023 22:53

There seem to be quite a few men about who “don’t like” double barrelled but can’t articulate why 🤔

AnneValentine · 10/09/2023 22:54

Whataretheodds · 10/09/2023 22:02

Your child takes your name. If you were being generous you could double-barrelled.

Is there a risk he'll register the birth without you?

He can’t as not married.

Oblahdeeoblahdoe · 10/09/2023 22:54

Doesn't like the tradition of getting married but traditional enough to want the baby to have his surname...

HowcanIhelp123 · 10/09/2023 23:00

Oblahdeeoblahdoe · 10/09/2023 22:54

Doesn't like the tradition of getting married but traditional enough to want the baby to have his surname...

It isn't traditional for baby to have dads name. Always been mums, just traditionally mums have been married to dads and taken their name before babies birth.

MoxieFox · 10/09/2023 23:03

HowcanIhelp123 · 10/09/2023 23:00

It isn't traditional for baby to have dads name. Always been mums, just traditionally mums have been married to dads and taken their name before babies birth.

Show quote history

That’s not correct. British society is traditionally patrilineal that means children take their father’s surname.

Starlightstarbright2 · 10/09/2023 23:06

MoxieFox · 10/09/2023 23:03

That’s not correct. British society is traditionally patrilineal that means children take their father’s surname.

Show quote history

The babies in hospital are known as Baby Jones after the mother ..

MoxieFox · 10/09/2023 23:10

Starlightstarbright2 · 10/09/2023 23:06

The babies in hospital are known as Baby Jones after the mother ..

Show quote history

Traditionally, the baby is not named after the mother.

HowcanIhelp123 · 10/09/2023 23:11

MoxieFox · 10/09/2023 23:03

That’s not correct. British society is traditionally patrilineal that means children take their father’s surname.

Show quote history

No, that's why its traditional for women to take mans surname upon marriage, babys surname has always been mums.

If OP gave birth in a hospital, baby will have baby Jones on it's wristband and will be baby Jones until registration. It has to be because mum is the patient to match it too.

MoxieFox · 10/09/2023 23:16

HowcanIhelp123 · 10/09/2023 23:11

No, that's why its traditional for women to take mans surname upon marriage, babys surname has always been mums.

If OP gave birth in a hospital, baby will have baby Jones on it's wristband and will be baby Jones until registration. It has to be because mum is the patient to match it too.

Show quote history

No. Hospital procedures have nothing to do with the fact that we live in a traditionally patrilineal society. Hospitals and wristbands saying ‘baby Jones’ are modern practices, not traditional practices.

Baby’s surname has traditionally been the father’s surname, unless baby were illegitimate in which case baby often had its own surname or the mothers surname.

That is the tradition.

imnotwhoyouthinkiam · 10/09/2023 23:17

At what point does a surname "become" a woman's? Or are they never ours?
My mum had surname A (from her father) for 19 years.

She had surname B (from my dad) for 24 years.

She's had surname C (from my stepdad) for 20 years.

(She didn't revert to her birth name when she divorced)
Were any of them hers? I'd say they all were.

I had surname A from my dad for 38 years.
Now I have surname B, which is made up, but was my sons before it was mine. Is it mine? Or his?

I remember last time this topic came up on MN. Someone argued with me repeatedly that names belong to men and to believe otherwise is anti-feminist. When I asked her to explain (as surely seeing names as belonging to men is the anti-feminist stance, not vice versa as she argued) she told me I was obviously too entrenched in the patriarchy to understand. So if anyone can shed some light I'd be delighted.

HowcanIhelp123 · 10/09/2023 23:18

MoxieFox · 10/09/2023 23:10

Traditionally, the baby is not named after the mother.

Show quote history

My parents weren't married when I was born, all my hospital wristbands are in my mums maiden name. I was baby maiden name until I was re-registered in my dad's name (they got married when I was 6 months old and she took his name). When I have birth unmarried, wristband said my maiden name. They don't ask, that's the standard. If you asked them to change it they say no as they need to be able to match to mum. I registered birth double-barreled but until then was maiden name.

FFSWhatToDoNow · 10/09/2023 23:19

MoxieFox · 10/09/2023 23:16

No. Hospital procedures have nothing to do with the fact that we live in a traditionally patrilineal society. Hospitals and wristbands saying ‘baby Jones’ are modern practices, not traditional practices.

Baby’s surname has traditionally been the father’s surname, unless baby were illegitimate in which case baby often had its own surname or the mothers surname.

That is the tradition.

Show quote history

Rooted in hideous sexism and misogyny. Where women weren’t considered people in their own right, but literal
belongings of their fathers and husbands. And then labelled too. All to protect the fragile male ego. Fuck that. It’s 2023 not 1853.

putyourshoesonnow · 10/09/2023 23:22

You’ve made a fair offer of Smith-Jones but he’s rejected it on the basis of it being double barrelled. So if he’s insisting that only one of them is used, then you get to choose which - ie Jones.
How you came by the name Jones and the alternatives of Green and Brown are just red herrings.

MoxieFox · 10/09/2023 23:23

HowcanIhelp123 · 10/09/2023 23:18

My parents weren't married when I was born, all my hospital wristbands are in my mums maiden name. I was baby maiden name until I was re-registered in my dad's name (they got married when I was 6 months old and she took his name). When I have birth unmarried, wristband said my maiden name. They don't ask, that's the standard. If you asked them to change it they say no as they need to be able to match to mum. I registered birth double-barreled but until then was maiden name.

Show quote history

So, are you between 80-300yrs old? Because when someone says “tradition” they aren’t usually referring to what was done in their lifetime, but what has been the norm for most of the past few centuries.