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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Surname issue

498 replies

roopertbear · 10/09/2023 21:50

More of a WWYD. Cannot agree on surname for our soon to be born child. Namechanged for this.

DP doesn't believe in marriage- fair enough. We have different surnames.

His surname- Smith- is the same as both his parents, paternal grandfather etc.).

My surname- Jones- is my ex DP's name. I changed it over a decade ago by deedpoll to match my DD. This has been my surname my whole adult life nearly. It's on all my documents and I don't go by my maiden name at all. DD has a very involved father and I can't change her surname. I also don't want to have a different surname to her.

My maiden name (Brown) is my father's name who I am no contact with. My mother has a totally different surname (Green).

I want to double-barrell Smith-Jones. DP wants just Smith. He hates double-barrell so said it can't be both names. I said fine, just Jones then. He is very much against that as it's not my 'real' name and it is essentially another man's name (though aren't they all?). He said if we don't go for Smith, we should go for Brown. But that's not my name and I've no intention to reverting to it. He said we should go for Green then, but it's the same issue. I don't want to have a surname that is not the same (or partly the same in the case of a double barrell) with either of my children, but we totally disagree.

The not getting married is not an issue, although I happily would, but I am not giving my child just DP's name if it's not also partly my surname (I'd become a Smith-Jones if we married- DC would then just be Smith). AIBU? Which name would you pick?

OP posts:
monsteramunch · 13/09/2023 09:58

@Appleontherocks

You realise no court would support you putting a child in another man's name and will view that as a start of your parental alienation, right? You need to think very carefully about how you word this.

You think a court would be concerned about a mother choosing to give her child the same legal surname as her? Just because it's the name of her ex husband who she was later married to?Catch yourself on 😂

PEPS1C0LA · 13/09/2023 10:29

Our eldest is double-barrelled as we weren’t married when I had her. We lived abroad and I was travelling a lot for work in her early years - I didn’t want the possible complications from my flying as Jones with a baby called Smith (they can be quite sticky (and rightly so) for child trafficking reasons). I didn’t want to have to carry her birth cert around and I also wanted that visible, public connection to her of being linked by name.
We then got married, and baby no. 2 is just Smith.

Sucette · 13/09/2023 10:40

He can't have it both ways, as others have said.

FFSWhatToDoNow · 13/09/2023 10:54

We then got married, and baby no. 2 is just Smith.

another 2 finger salute to feminism.

ThunderStormFan · 13/09/2023 11:13

Absolutely not unreasonable, if he’s not prepared to get married, then baby gets the name you choose.

Jafferz · 13/09/2023 11:24

Reugny · 13/09/2023 05:19

The problem with not using a hyphen is that many forms don't recognise a last name with a space or spaces in it.

I have friends and acquaintances whose names start with of e.g "de", "van" whose names are mangled on some systems.

Show quote history

@Reugny haven't come across that yet, but if a form requires him to use his full legal name as per passport/birth certificate and doesn't like two separate words, then he can just add a hyphen. I don't know for sure but I very much doubt the hyphen has any status in law and would cause any issues for him. Is "Smith Jones" a different name to "Smith-Jones"? To my mind the hyphen just implies that the two names are definitely always said together. Whereas no hyphen means two separate surnames in the same way that many people have two separate first names.

I personally don't think it's a major issue.

Goldbar · 13/09/2023 11:28

The OP doesn't want the baby to have another man's name (ridiculous suggestion 🙄), she wants the baby to have HER name. It may have originated in her first marriage, but it's accompanied her through life for many years and has become hers. Men don't own names.

GabriellaMontez · 13/09/2023 12:17

Appleontherocks · 13/09/2023 09:39

You've been continually whining that he won't marry you and this is why he doesn't get a say. You realise no court would support you putting a child in another man's name and will view that as a start of your parental alienation, right? You need to think very carefully about how you word this.

Show quote history

And then, when people still disagreed, the poster made up some total bullshit and said it was 'legal'.

Tandora · 13/09/2023 12:27

Appleontherocks · 12/09/2023 21:32

There's no hassle. My parents were not married. Never had any hassle as a child. My own children aren't in my surname. Never had an issue. I've taken a step child abroad without any of their parents..Never had an issue.

You're reaching. This is about punishing him for not marrying you. Get over it for your child's sake because this won't be the end of it. See a therapist. Break up with him. But stop weaponising the child. Please.

Show quote history

This is an absolutely bizarre take. Because she wants to give her child both her and dad’s name she is “weaponising” them??? How ridiculous. It’s perfectly normal and sensible to want to have the same name as one’s child for all sorts of reasons.

Tandora · 13/09/2023 12:29

Appleontherocks · 13/09/2023 09:39

You've been continually whining that he won't marry you and this is why he doesn't get a say. You realise no court would support you putting a child in another man's name and will view that as a start of your parental alienation, right? You need to think very carefully about how you word this.

Show quote history

Wtf are you talking about 😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣. She can name the child anything she wants and no court is going to intervene. Your take is completely mental.

Reugny · 13/09/2023 13:00

Tandora · 13/09/2023 12:29

Wtf are you talking about 😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣. She can name the child anything she wants and no court is going to intervene. Your take is completely mental.

Show quote history

That's not true.

If they split up now and it went to Court due to the child's age he could successfully be able to argue that the child should have a double barrelled last name.

He could also try to make a legal precedent by arguing that giving the child their mother's ex-spouse's name is damaging to the child.

AnSolas · 13/09/2023 13:08

Reugny · 13/09/2023 13:00

That's not true.

If they split up now and it went to Court due to the child's age he could successfully be able to argue that the child should have a double barrelled last name.

He could also try to make a legal precedent by arguing that giving the child their mother's ex-spouse's name is damaging to the child.

Show quote history

Its her legal name.

Do you have any case law on an unmarried father sucessfully getting the UK Courts to order the Registrar / unmarried mother to give her child a name other than hers?

imnotwhoyouthinkiam · 13/09/2023 13:11

Reugny · 13/09/2023 13:00

That's not true.

If they split up now and it went to Court due to the child's age he could successfully be able to argue that the child should have a double barrelled last name.

He could also try to make a legal precedent by arguing that giving the child their mother's ex-spouse's name is damaging to the child.

Show quote history

Why would he waste money going to court when he's been offered the option of double barrelled anyway?

PEPS1C0LA · 13/09/2023 13:20

Wow! Hi there, let’s chat! Is your surname your mum’s? Do you have kids and do they have your mum’s name?
My surname is already double-barrelled - should my kids have triple-barrelled? Let’s get his mum in on the party - quadruple?! (Where does this stop?!)
Or maybe just my mum’s and his mum’s? FWIW my surname is foreign for where we live, a nightmare to pronounce and with potential bias attached - I didn’t want to saddle my kids with that burden.
Plus, my husband has 3 sisters, and I have only 1 brother. So this way both our ‘family’ names keep going. (I’m not about to unpick the patriarchy for generations going back.)

My name doesn’t define me,
my opinions or my actions. Does yours? It’s a legal and practical solution, end of, and I offered my situation to the OP to show that there can be further-reaching implications to not sharing the same name as your kid. But thanks for your helpful input.

PEPS1C0LA · 13/09/2023 13:31

FFSWhatToDoNow · 13/09/2023 10:54

We then got married, and baby no. 2 is just Smith.

another 2 finger salute to feminism.

My last in reply to this comment…

LadyBird1973 · 13/09/2023 13:41

"No chance would anyone i know allow it"

They wouldn't have a choice. Legally only the mother can register the baby if she's not married to the father.

I'd love to see what a judge would say when the OP states she was perfectly happy to go double barrelled on the name and he was the one who wanted it all his own way!

The OP is the mother and she can perfectly legally give the baby her name. It really doesn't matter where that name originated - she hasn't taken the name out on loan, it's as much hers now as if she was born with it! So people need to stop with their bullshit pronouncements of what they think the law should do, as if it's actual fact!

disappearingfish · 13/09/2023 14:58

Should be your name. You're carrying the baby and squeezing it out of your fandango. He's "doesn't believe" in marriage (wtf) so he can suck it up.

serena7 · 13/09/2023 15:22

I'm sorry but I can understand your partner's POV here - bizarre to give your child the surname of your ex partner over the name of their actual father. Your DP may not have birthed the child, but I'm assuming he will be the father in the child's life? If so, I think it's quite hurtful to give the child the name of your ex tbh. And weird.

serena7 · 13/09/2023 15:27

Goldbar · 13/09/2023 11:28

The OP doesn't want the baby to have another man's name (ridiculous suggestion 🙄), she wants the baby to have HER name. It may have originated in her first marriage, but it's accompanied her through life for many years and has become hers. Men don't own names.

Well she wouldn't have the name Jones if it wasn't for her ex having that name, so she does have that name because of a man.

The only name that's ever true yours is your family name and it would make more sense if we worked like some countries of the world where women do not change names upon marriage.

serena7 · 13/09/2023 15:32

imnotwhoyouthinkiam · 13/09/2023 09:51

Please can one of the "it's another man's name" posters answer my questions about when (if ever) a woman's name becomes hers.

Thank you.

A woman and (man's) name is the family name they were born with. The norm in this country is that a man never changes his - he was born Smith, he will forever be a Smith. A woman may change hers upon marriage, but even if she does, 'her' name will always be Smith and she can always revert back to that if she wants to. It may be her Father's name, but she owns that name just as much as any brother she has.

It works like that in many countries of the world and it makes much more sense imo.

poetryandwine · 13/09/2023 15:43

Hi, OP -

Regarding this question of names, your DP sounds like a clever undergraduate. I think he’s offering Brown and Green to sound superficially reasonable. Either he really wants the patriarchy of Smith but knows he hasn’t got a leg to stand on, or the unknown man Jones is bothering him more than he will say in the context of his own DS.

These are not your problems. It’s admirable that you’ve made your peace with not being married, because I really don’t believe many of these objections in principle stand up to scrutiny. (Undoubtedly many of them are held by generally good people). If he wants Smith he can achieve it the old fashioned way.

Otherwise the simple truth is that when two people disagree someone must prevail and in this case the law says that’s you. Surely any enlightened feminist, which is the subtext we’re getting, will appreciate that.

imnotwhoyouthinkiam · 13/09/2023 15:45

serena7 · 13/09/2023 15:32

A woman and (man's) name is the family name they were born with. The norm in this country is that a man never changes his - he was born Smith, he will forever be a Smith. A woman may change hers upon marriage, but even if she does, 'her' name will always be Smith and she can always revert back to that if she wants to. It may be her Father's name, but she owns that name just as much as any brother she has.

It works like that in many countries of the world and it makes much more sense imo.

Show quote history

But I've been told before (on here and irl) that that's my dad's name. I got it from a man. Its only mine until I get married.

My mum has had her 3rd surname longer than she had the first 2. Why is that one any less her name than the one she was born with?

Surely a person's name is the one they choose to use. Regardless of who they 'got ' it from?

ZebraDanios · 13/09/2023 16:01

Jafferz · 13/09/2023 11:24

@Reugny haven't come across that yet, but if a form requires him to use his full legal name as per passport/birth certificate and doesn't like two separate words, then he can just add a hyphen. I don't know for sure but I very much doubt the hyphen has any status in law and would cause any issues for him. Is "Smith Jones" a different name to "Smith-Jones"? To my mind the hyphen just implies that the two names are definitely always said together. Whereas no hyphen means two separate surnames in the same way that many people have two separate first names.

I personally don't think it's a major issue.

Show quote history

My kids have two surnames and at first lots
of people assumed the first surname (which is mine) was just a middle name and called
them just by the second one. It took a fair bit of gentle reminding for some people to get it (and one still doesn’t).

It would have been interesting to have seen how many people would have dropped the second part if we’d put DH’s first instead…

kaylawayla · 13/09/2023 16:33

Sorry. You cant be seriously entertaining the idea of giving a kid a name of a person you were with as a teenager and you nicked his name cos you fancied it. Ridiculous.

BoyMamma2 · 13/09/2023 16:35

My dc was given then DP name as we were planning on getting married. He changed his mind about marriage and walked out when second DC was 2 days old.
with hindsight I would have given my name as I’m the main parent anyway. I’d say you and all the children have same name is better all round.