To think the working world is shit if you're an introvert?

[serena7]

I am a good worker. I get things done quickly and I'm flexible and amiable. But all of that means nothing when it comes to career progression.

It's always the confident speakers who get promotions or get hired for jobs in the first place. I think with work, the work you do only accounts for about 30% of it. The other 70% is how you interact with other people, how likeable you are and how confident you come across.

I've worked in a few different industries and this has always been the case. I have really tried to improve myself; and I'm better than I used to be (I used to have panic attacks about presentations but now I can just about do it). But I've accepted I will never get too far in my career because I don't have the extroverted personality required. I do have diagnosed social anxiety which doesn't help, but even with medication and therapy, I still can't take confidence so I think this is an introvert trait I can't change no matter what I do.

If you think it’s hard being an introvert you should try being an empath introvert like me.

YANBU

There is a completely impenetrable glass ceiling at my work if you are an introvert. Luckily for me I can mask, but it exhausts me.

I agree. I'm somewhere between extrovert and introvert but when it comes to working I really prefer to get my head down.

In the office I'm surrounded by 3 radio channels playing at once and loads of chat from colleagues. I love to catch up but to an extent.

I consistently get great feedback and good raises but I've noticed that out of 3 of us in the core team, the two introverts who are heard workers get less opportunity than the extroverted colleagues. You definitely need to play the game and it's not a game I enjoy playing.

Is it possible for you to look for another job where being confident/likeable/doing presentations isn't part of the job?

Many moons ago, I sat on an interview panel for anew director. I defo went away and pondered that the interview process is set up for a certain ‘type’ of person!

yes - confidence gets mistaken for competence…

Yes, unfortunately YANBU.

I’m an introvert, my best ever boss was an introvert - competent, empathetic, focused on good relationships in the team, soft spoken. At times of company layoffs, he got fired first - the other managers at his level stayed as they were the loud visible types who were good at self promotion.

True in every job. If you talk the talk people believe it. Confidence does not equal competence, but at the same time you know that if you give the confident person a task they’ll just get on and do it. It may not be perfect, but at least it’s done and off someone else’s plate.

I have to pretend everyday, it’s exhausting.

Yeah that's why the only job that suits me is being a mother 👩 it's hard work but I can handle it better than a 9 to fiver.

Agree with you completely. I’ve managed to fake it as I’ve got older, but it’s exhausting. I’m not someone who loves the sound of my own voice, I only contribute if I have something to actually add, not just for the sake of it. When I was younger a woman on my team used to constantly pick on me for “not speaking in meetings”. She was an extrovert of course (and a bully)

Absolutely. Highest grades in school and yet I don’t progress because of all the reasons you’ve mentioned.

Worked out I was actually really good at being a therapist.

It's utterly exhausting and really unfair. i have transitioned to an industry which favours introverts (in terms of the raw temperaments that seem to be able to do the sort of work, technically) but despite this there is this constant push for a "buzzy" office that is really just pushing water uphill with this sort of work and these kinds of people. what I really hate is when it is actively working against the outcome but some HR type somewhere imposes a pointlessly social structure on an essentially solo task. It just jams us all up and it makes us tired for no reason.

My daughter is puzzled that she got the year 9 Maths award at school. I said "Why? you are good at maths, you said your assessment result might have been the highest in the year, I guess it was". She said "I don't speak up in class so I wouldn't have thought I would get an award." This is so fucked up! We are training kids to think that awards are given for wanging on instead of excellence in a subject

I hear you! Wish more of mumsnet saw that as a valid choice.

I felt like this in a previous job so I tried putting myself out there and being more personable and then I got told I was too loud and vocal :))) so I went back to trying to keep my head down and not speak to people, but then I would get into trouble for people speaking to me because I should have been focusing. Realised eventually that some workplaces you simply can't win no matter what you do.

I totally agree with this.

I wouldn't mind so much being a few notches down the pecking order, if it was accepted as legit to just do a good job and be quiet. But even an excellent job isn't good enough if you're at the mercy of these extravert run places. I know that if you are a sales director or a CEO there is always going to be a certain amount of barging about persuading people to do things (or actually, it is mostly that) and you have to love the sound of your own voice to do that - I can accept that that isn't me. But what makes me really sad and frightened is that everyone is supposed to be like that, at all levels, and the amount of material insecurity to people like me, that results from extraverts making personnel decisions on the basis of their emotions, and who they have good and bad feelings about, is just awful. Numerical results, hard facts, can't protect you

I agree that confidence is important, but introverts don't necessarily lack confidence. I wonder if this is an area you can work on? If sounds a bit like your anxiety is getting in the way, which is something that can change, rather than your personality.

Is there any chance of getting a mentor at work who can coach you? It makes a big difference having someone who's on your side and can give honest feedback.

I agree. You have to do public speaking and line management. Two things I don't want to do.

I feel all women should know this - A LOT of successful senior people take beta blockers to do presentations. More than you think. The whole 'I just got used to doing them and now I really enjoy public speaking' thing is (often) bullshit. They're on beta blockers.

YANBU. I was constantly overlooked because I was quiet and just got on with the work rather than doing a lot of chatting, socialising, etc. The same happened at five different jobs.

Have you read Quiet’ by Susan Cain? It’s a good read for us conscientious effective people who prefer to get things done out of the limelight.

Was coming on to recommend that book too. It's actually more important for extraverts to read and senior leaders and HR professionals! I'm an extrovert and I recognise what has been written above about how introverts can be overlooked day to day and for promotion. Successful projects and businesses need diverse teams -that doesn't just mean gender, race, etc but can also mean skills, backgrounds and ways of working and thinking. So much of company structures and working practices are for extroverts - meetings are perfect for extroverts but not always going to be best way to engage an introvert- things like sending out documents ahead of meetings, allowing questions and side discussions before and after meetings or The chair of meeting (or anyone in the meeting) making sure everyone has had chance to speak can really help an introvert contribute .

I think it depends what sort of job that you choose to do

Find a job that suits your personality better